Pictures from Differential Repairs.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
Pictures from Differential Repairs.
Thanks to MSI in Roseville, CA, I am now on the road and the car is smoother and quieter than ever.
Clutch Pack Damage. Possible damage over time at the drags.
Failure was imminent and in fact, the vehicle did have a while at
75mph cruise. Now, it is whisper quiet.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff1.jpg
Combined Photo of broken axle and new DTE hardened axles.
According to the expert at MSI, this is the most common break.
Amazing how clean the break was.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff2.jpg
Left Half Shaft. Note, discussion about the C5 Half shafts. Well, this one lived up to its reputation. The CV joint is slighly twisted, but given what it went through, I think its fairly safe to say its a "tough piece".
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff3.jpg
I suspect the CV joint and clutch pack were damaged before the final launch that got the axle. I had a slight driveline vibration that I had attributed to the new clutch. Well, guess what. The rear end whine and the vibration are gone. Now, when is the next test n tune...
Clutch Pack Damage. Possible damage over time at the drags.
Failure was imminent and in fact, the vehicle did have a while at
75mph cruise. Now, it is whisper quiet.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff1.jpg
Combined Photo of broken axle and new DTE hardened axles.
According to the expert at MSI, this is the most common break.
Amazing how clean the break was.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff2.jpg
Left Half Shaft. Note, discussion about the C5 Half shafts. Well, this one lived up to its reputation. The CV joint is slighly twisted, but given what it went through, I think its fairly safe to say its a "tough piece".
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff3.jpg
I suspect the CV joint and clutch pack were damaged before the final launch that got the axle. I had a slight driveline vibration that I had attributed to the new clutch. Well, guess what. The rear end whine and the vibration are gone. Now, when is the next test n tune...
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Thanks to MSI in Roseville, CA, I am now on the road and the car is smoother and quieter than ever.
Clutch Pack Damage. Possible damage over time at the drags.
Failure was imminent and in fact, the vehicle did have a while at
75mph cruise. Now, it is whisper quiet.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff1.jpg
Combined Photo of broken axle and new DTE hardened axles.
According to the expert at MSI, this is the most common break.
Amazing how clean the break was.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff2.jpg
Left Half Shaft. Note, discussion about the C5 Half shafts. Well, this one lived up to its reputation. The CV joint is slighly twisted, but given what it went through, I think its fairly safe to say its a "tough piece".
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff3.jpg
I suspect the CV joint and clutch pack were damaged before the final launch that got the axle. I had a slight driveline vibration that I had attributed to the new clutch. Well, guess what. The rear end whine and the vibration are gone. Now, when is the next test n tune...
Clutch Pack Damage. Possible damage over time at the drags.
Failure was imminent and in fact, the vehicle did have a while at
75mph cruise. Now, it is whisper quiet.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff1.jpg
Combined Photo of broken axle and new DTE hardened axles.
According to the expert at MSI, this is the most common break.
Amazing how clean the break was.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff2.jpg
Left Half Shaft. Note, discussion about the C5 Half shafts. Well, this one lived up to its reputation. The CV joint is slighly twisted, but given what it went through, I think its fairly safe to say its a "tough piece".
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/diff3.jpg
I suspect the CV joint and clutch pack were damaged before the final launch that got the axle. I had a slight driveline vibration that I had attributed to the new clutch. Well, guess what. The rear end whine and the vibration are gone. Now, when is the next test n tune...
The only thing that I did not reinforce in my build is the stock halfshafts. I am wondering why the CV joint twisted up like that on the halfshaft.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
low 11sec ride. This happened over an array of hard launches, most likely not 1.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
When I redo the engine in a couple of years I'll replace everything with factory fresh slave, master and remote bleeder, which will help with the releasing problem.
Thanks for the info.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
I'm not a drag racer so I hope that does not happen to mine. I have a twin textralia and it's either on or not. I made an error in using a drilled mod slave on it and should have used an unmodded factory slave.
When I redo the engine in a couple of years I'll replace everything with factory fresh slave, master and remote bleeder, which will help with the releasing problem.
Thanks for the info.
When I redo the engine in a couple of years I'll replace everything with factory fresh slave, master and remote bleeder, which will help with the releasing problem.
Thanks for the info.
What happens when you drill the slave to performance? I have not tried this. I also disagree on the theory of drilling them though. Until someone finds out what the exact problem is, we will all have to keep trying new ideas I guess.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
Yesterday, I drove the ThunderHill road course to test my new rear out out and break it in. All is well, no whining or other noises. As you may know, it all tires, suspension, brakes, and oil feed out there. Note, I've got the 0Z700 clutch, Z spec. I can't possibly see how this would ever happen on a road course or anywhere else where you are not launching hard from a dead stop. Now, who is going to the New Years Day drags?
What happens when you drill the slave to performance? I have not tried this. I also disagree on the theory of drilling them though. Until someone finds out what the exact problem is, we will all have to keep trying new ideas I guess.
What happens when you drill the slave to performance? I have not tried this. I also disagree on the theory of drilling them though. Until someone finds out what the exact problem is, we will all have to keep trying new ideas I guess.
This has nothing to do with the sticking pedal problem. The sticking pedal problem is due to hydraulic failure either the fluid or one of the components seals. There is a lot of heat where the slave is loctaed unlike most foreign jobs where the slave is located on the outside of the bell housing.
I've installed a remote bleeder and hope that + the better quality Z06 slave and master will correct the problem.
Most clutch failures are not the plate or disc related as the clutch is still fully engaged you just don't have any pedal pressure (hydraulics).
I'm surprised that GM has not tried to correct the problem in any way, like thru the use of a cable system or moving the hydraulic slave to the outside of the bell housing.
Here's a how to on the drill mod.
http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_05...tall_pics.html
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
I assert the problem is the window of time where you are at max rpm, push in, then quickly release pedal.
I think there must be a simultaneous burst of hydraulic pressure along w/the clutch fingers pushing on the slave as an assist for the pedal to return quickly. If the window is missed, due to say some issue w/centrigal force on the fingers, the clutch is stuck to the floor because the two events did not occur at the same time. Even if the clutch is disengaged, it is still spinning at high speed.
I do run Motul 600, only because its good fluid I use in the brakes.
Based on your assertion, you would add a cable and locate the cylinder outside the housing. This would still allow an easy to push clutch.
If you are right, better patent that idea before the aftermarket companies read this.
Race Director
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 15,960
Likes: 21
From: West Norriton PA
St. Jude Donor '08
I gotta disagree on that point. I don't necessarily think the problem is the heat. I think its RPM related and without slippage, there is no additional heat. This suggest to me that RPM is a primary factor vs heat.
I assert the problem is the window of time where you are at max rpm, push in, then quickly release pedal.
I think there must be a simultaneous burst of hydraulic pressure along w/the clutch fingers pushing on the slave as an assist for the pedal to return quickly. If the window is missed, due to say some issue w/centrigal force on the fingers, the clutch is stuck to the floor because the two events did not occur at the same time. Even if the clutch is disengaged, it is still spinning at high speed.
I do run Motul 600, only because its good fluid I use in the brakes.
Based on your assertion, you would add a cable and locate the cylinder outside the housing. This would still allow an easy to push clutch.
If you are right, better patent that idea before the aftermarket companies read this.
I assert the problem is the window of time where you are at max rpm, push in, then quickly release pedal.
I think there must be a simultaneous burst of hydraulic pressure along w/the clutch fingers pushing on the slave as an assist for the pedal to return quickly. If the window is missed, due to say some issue w/centrigal force on the fingers, the clutch is stuck to the floor because the two events did not occur at the same time. Even if the clutch is disengaged, it is still spinning at high speed.
I do run Motul 600, only because its good fluid I use in the brakes.
Based on your assertion, you would add a cable and locate the cylinder outside the housing. This would still allow an easy to push clutch.
If you are right, better patent that idea before the aftermarket companies read this.
If you think about your scenario some you will realize that RPM is not the issue, it's heat.
The hydraulic fluid gets discolored by heat no by RPM. Why do think you right leg gots so hot if it's against the tunnel. The heat is what causes brake fluid to boil and the result is a spongie brake pedal.
It's no different than the hydraulic clutch scenario. The fluid over heats and you have spongie clutch pedal. Without easy access to bleed the system, it becomes a PITA. A remote bleeder properly installed will solve a lot of problems along with routine hydraulic fluid change.
BTW, I run the same brake fluid as you.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
Did not think of that, ended up with a stock replacement. Please describe the symptoms you had prior to failure. Curious if you had a whine. Also, agree, its freaky how it clean slices the axle. When I looked closely I could not see any place where maybe a break had already occurred.
Last edited by 427CPE; Dec 9, 2007 at 09:51 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,737
Likes: 2
From: California USA
It's no different than the hydraulic clutch scenario. The fluid over heats and you have spongie clutch pedal. Without easy access to bleed the system, it becomes a PITA. A remote bleeder properly installed will solve a lot of problems along with routine hydraulic fluid change.
BTW, I run the same brake fluid as you.
BTW, I run the same brake fluid as you.
Good luck w/the fluid. One question. How did you figure out the exact temp of the fluid and how do you know its boiling? To date, I have never seen data to proof this.
