Are we being watched?
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Kyle Texas
Re: Are we being watched? (VetteMan2k1)
If I own the car, I own the black (er, silver) box. The way I see it, they have no legal right to see what it says.
I was thinking that too... what right would an insurance company have to remove something from YOUR car without YOUR permission. I would thing that screams of a lawsuit in and of it's own... JMO.
I was thinking that too... what right would an insurance company have to remove something from YOUR car without YOUR permission. I would thing that screams of a lawsuit in and of it's own... JMO.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Are we being watched? (ricrose)
I don't think it would matter, no place in my insurance fine print does it say they won't pay if I was speeding or whatever. besides the box can't tell if there was ice on the road, if something else was in the road, etc. Way to many factors lead up to an accident, and they can't be recorded on any box.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,466
Likes: 0
From: GARDENA Ca, State Of Konfusion
St. Jude Donor '05
Re: Are we being watched? (PeteL)
If you race your car at the drag strip, then what? Information is recorded and stored, how long. Doesn't mean a thing! Don't be naive!
[Modified by wallstAL, 10:17 AM 11/24/2001]
[Modified by wallstAL, 10:17 AM 11/24/2001]
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 20,054
Likes: 44
From: Swansea IL
Re: Are we being watched? (ricrose)
I thought the data collected was on a continous couple of seconds loop. Basically the last few seconds of ANY EVENT, certain perimeters were recorded. I have always thought that this was for GM to see if the car was abused when sorting out warranty claims. I never thought insurance companies or police agencies had access to this data. Looks like I could be wrong.
All those folks who brag about their latest top speed run's may want to re-think that. Any accident at those speeds is tragic but it invloves major property damage, injury or fatalities knowing the "black box" has the data to put you away is enough to make me reconsider.
Tom
USAF Retired
[Modified by AFVETTE, 8:18 AM 11/24/2001]
All those folks who brag about their latest top speed run's may want to re-think that. Any accident at those speeds is tragic but it invloves major property damage, injury or fatalities knowing the "black box" has the data to put you away is enough to make me reconsider.
Tom
USAF Retired
[Modified by AFVETTE, 8:18 AM 11/24/2001]
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: America
Re: Are we being watched? (AFVETTE)
AF, go back up thre thhread and read the link........it answers your question
WallstAl,,,,,,,,,,,,,"If you race your car at the dragsrtip, then what?......don't be stupid.
What does this mean??
PeteL, What is an OBD III??????????
WallstAl,,,,,,,,,,,,,"If you race your car at the dragsrtip, then what?......don't be stupid.
What does this mean??
PeteL, What is an OBD III??????????
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
Re: Are we being watched? (ZO6LS6)
what right would an insurance company have to remove something from YOUR car without YOUR permission
Racer
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 484
Likes: 102
From: Prescott AZ
Re: Are we being watched? (dm3557)
If I own the car, I own the black (er, silver) box. The way I see it, they have no legal right to see what it says.
I was thinking that too... what right would an insurance company have to remove something from YOUR car without YOUR permission. I would thing that screams of a lawsuit in and of it's own... JMO.
Sorry, that isn't correct. If relevant evidence exists, it can be secured through a court order (subpoena) for inspection and copying. If the above theory were correct, no one would ever have to appear for a deposition or produce documents. That's the trouble with trying to figure out what the law is through deductive logic; it gets a lot of people into a jam when they do that and act accordingly.
As for the black box, if I knew how to disconnect it, I would! I do own it and I don't like the fact that it's being used in my car to collect evidence that could be used against me. Once the accident happens however, it's too late as you can't destroy relevant evidence. Oh well...big brother is definitely watching.
Unless the car is totalled and is then owned by the insurance company.
I was thinking that too... what right would an insurance company have to remove something from YOUR car without YOUR permission. I would thing that screams of a lawsuit in and of it's own... JMO.
Sorry, that isn't correct. If relevant evidence exists, it can be secured through a court order (subpoena) for inspection and copying. If the above theory were correct, no one would ever have to appear for a deposition or produce documents. That's the trouble with trying to figure out what the law is through deductive logic; it gets a lot of people into a jam when they do that and act accordingly.
As for the black box, if I knew how to disconnect it, I would! I do own it and I don't like the fact that it's being used in my car to collect evidence that could be used against me. Once the accident happens however, it's too late as you can't destroy relevant evidence. Oh well...big brother is definitely watching.
Unless the car is totalled and is then owned by the insurance company.
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Drifting
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
From: America
Re: Are we being watched? (mchaney)
Better yet, you know where it's located, go to the wrecking yard, impoundment area, and remove it yourself.......from location looks like a 5 minute job with a screwdriver.
If the ins co hasn't given you a chedk, or paid it off....it's STILL yours........ :rolleyes:
If the ins co hasn't given you a chedk, or paid it off....it's STILL yours........ :rolleyes:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 0
From: Lake Martin ALABAMA
Re: Are we being watched? (ricrose)
The box is actually the airbag control system. As part of it's function, it also logs the last 10 seconds of speed, rpm,
and whether the driver's belt was buckled. The 10 second window freezes when the bags are deployed.
It is located in the center console, just behind and under the climate control area.
As far as who can access the info:
1) Why would it be installed in the car if no one was ever to see it?
2) Anything that CAN be abused, WILL be abused.
I removed the box along when I took both bags out.
and whether the driver's belt was buckled. The 10 second window freezes when the bags are deployed.
It is located in the center console, just behind and under the climate control area.
As far as who can access the info:
1) Why would it be installed in the car if no one was ever to see it?
2) Anything that CAN be abused, WILL be abused.
I removed the box along when I took both bags out.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 0
From: Lake Martin ALABAMA
Re: Are we being watched? (1999 White C5 Coupe)
It's actually not a question of being paranoid..... It's a matter of paying for stuff that you neither want nor need.
I have a fear of the damn bag going off for no reason, so I disconnected them. (By the way, that is ONE statistic you will never
hear.....yet common sense says that it must surely have happened at least a few times)
Since I disconnected the bags, why then carry around the extra weight?
I have a fear of the damn bag going off for no reason, so I disconnected them. (By the way, that is ONE statistic you will never
hear.....yet common sense says that it must surely have happened at least a few times)
Since I disconnected the bags, why then carry around the extra weight?
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: NC
Re: Are we being watched? (ZO6LS6)
Pending litigation in courts today dealing with this. Each insurance policy states the vehicle owner is to cooperate with your carrier (in the event of a loss) to investigate, research, and settle claims (see your terms and conditions section of your policy). If the insurance carrier asks for the box and you don't provide - are you violating the "terms and conditions"? If the court rules yes, your failure to turn the box over can result in denial of coverage. Expect case law soon.
-GR
-GR
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,421
Likes: 3
From: Memphis Tn
Re: Are we being watched? (steve badalamenti)
That's a great idea. It is common practice for car thieves to bump you at a red light, causing you to become disoriented as a result of your airbag being deployed, and you find yourself out in the street, without your car.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,233
Likes: 5
Re: Are we being watched? (ZO6LS6)
I wonder what happens if you disconnect your battery, if able to, and let the stored info disappear like some other stored info does. I saw that on a thread a while back..............
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,093
Likes: 215
From: Ca.
Re: Are we being watched? (1999 White C5 Coupe)
Can you say paranoid????
Racer
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee WI
Re: Are we being watched? (ZO6LS6)
Better yet, you know where it's located, go to the wrecking yard, impoundment area, and remove it yourself.......from location looks like a 5 minute job with a screwdriver.
If the ins co hasn't given you a chedk, or paid it off....it's STILL yours........ :rolleyes:
If the ins co hasn't given you a chedk, or paid it off....it's STILL yours........ :rolleyes:
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 1999
Posts: 3,630
Likes: 8
From: Virginia Beach Virginia
Re: Are we being watched? (ricrose)
Doesn't surprise me...GM is the only U.S. Auto Company that forces the consumer to run with Daylight Running Lamps. All of a sudden they have become the "safety watchdogs" in the automotive society.
I finally disabled those ugly, detracting DRLs (and you know what they say...when the heat is not on you, it's on somebody else). I'll bet those cops just loving seeing those bright DRLs on Vettes and F-bodies.
GM needs to stick to selling cars and getting out of the "Big-Brother" business.
I finally disabled those ugly, detracting DRLs (and you know what they say...when the heat is not on you, it's on somebody else). I'll bet those cops just loving seeing those bright DRLs on Vettes and F-bodies.
GM needs to stick to selling cars and getting out of the "Big-Brother" business.
