Heads before Cam?
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
Heads before Cam?
I'm really wanting a H/C swap, but at the time I feel that only one is in the budget. I've seen so many DIY head swaps on here it looks so easy... perhaps somthing I could attempt.
The goal with this car is for a mild street machine. I'm looking at getting LS6 heads and LS6 intake and later on a cam. If I still need more power, I can have the head sand intake ported.
Question: what effect (of any) would i notice by swapping out me OEM LS1 heads for a set of LS6? Is this somthing that can easily be done with basic tools?
thanks.
The goal with this car is for a mild street machine. I'm looking at getting LS6 heads and LS6 intake and later on a cam. If I still need more power, I can have the head sand intake ported.
Question: what effect (of any) would i notice by swapping out me OEM LS1 heads for a set of LS6? Is this somthing that can easily be done with basic tools?
thanks.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 831
Likes: 2
From: Silver Spring, MD
I am in a similar situation. I am currently rebuilding a LS1. My research so far indicates that adding LS6 heads (ported) and an LS6 intake would get in the range of 400-415 hp and about 400 torque. Those number seem to make sense since that application is basically a C5 Z06 with ported heads (yielding that extra hp and torque).
I am looking far abit more, which a hope to achieve with some light block work (to raise the compression) and a strong cam to go with the above application. however, i am also looking into PP or AFR (205) heads. Just don;t know if I can swing it but don't won't to second guessing that i left to much on the table.
I am looking far abit more, which a hope to achieve with some light block work (to raise the compression) and a strong cam to go with the above application. however, i am also looking into PP or AFR (205) heads. Just don;t know if I can swing it but don't won't to second guessing that i left to much on the table.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
I would really do it all at the same time. You can find used LS6 intakes for $350 all day long, a mild cam (224ish, 230ish) and a set of ported LS6 heads are all pretty reasonable in price.
It definantly would not be worth it to do the swap, then take them back off to have ported. Look into the partiot heads. They seem to do pretty well.
Good luck
Im sure many more will chime in where I have forgotten. This is finals week for me and Im not all here right now
It definantly would not be worth it to do the swap, then take them back off to have ported. Look into the partiot heads. They seem to do pretty well.
Good luck Im sure many more will chime in where I have forgotten. This is finals week for me and Im not all here right now
Drifting
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,590
Likes: 1
From: Littleton Colorado
Heads only was my favorite mod so far, it can be done with basic tools and you don't have to worry about timing. 50 hp out of a ported set of LS6 heads seems a little high, but it was definately more of a kick in the SOP than the LT headers were. And, you retain all the driveability and stealth of the stock cam. A non-ported set of LS-5 heads will not net you much.
I tried a big'ish cam and I'm down grading some, if that does not work then a 224 range is next. Cams are very subjective, best bet is to find someone who has a cam and see if you like the sound and like the power.
Until then heads only is a good starter project for the DIY guys...
If your paying someone, then its not the best way to spend your money as it would double your bill...
I tried a big'ish cam and I'm down grading some, if that does not work then a 224 range is next. Cams are very subjective, best bet is to find someone who has a cam and see if you like the sound and like the power.
Until then heads only is a good starter project for the DIY guys...
If your paying someone, then its not the best way to spend your money as it would double your bill...
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
From: Brookfield WI
I would go with a cam first
You will save money by doing both at once (labor, gaskets, valve springs and retainers, etc.)
I had the same dilemma a few years ago, researched it quite a bit, and then spoke with Phil at DTE for a good 30 minutes. I was also considering supercharging vs. a H/C job.
My decision was to go with a cam, headers, and better air intake first. The results were very good. The next year I added heads (AFR 205) and a Fast 90 intake. The end result is impressive (IMO), but the cam seemed to provide more bang for the buck. BTW, I have a very mild "baby cam" that has a near stock-like idle. I could have gotten more HP with a wilder cam but I really didn't want anything too lumpy.
Below is a link to a comparison dyno from both sets of mods.
http://www.comp-soln.com/Dyno3Run.jpg
These are videos of my car. The first was after the cam, and the second was after the heads:
http://www.comp-soln.com/Chips_C5-lowres.mov
http://www.comp-soln.com/AfterAFR205.mov
Hope that helps.
Chip
I had the same dilemma a few years ago, researched it quite a bit, and then spoke with Phil at DTE for a good 30 minutes. I was also considering supercharging vs. a H/C job.
My decision was to go with a cam, headers, and better air intake first. The results were very good. The next year I added heads (AFR 205) and a Fast 90 intake. The end result is impressive (IMO), but the cam seemed to provide more bang for the buck. BTW, I have a very mild "baby cam" that has a near stock-like idle. I could have gotten more HP with a wilder cam but I really didn't want anything too lumpy.
Below is a link to a comparison dyno from both sets of mods.
http://www.comp-soln.com/Dyno3Run.jpg
These are videos of my car. The first was after the cam, and the second was after the heads:
http://www.comp-soln.com/Chips_C5-lowres.mov
http://www.comp-soln.com/AfterAFR205.mov
Hope that helps.
Chip
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 833
Likes: 1
From: long island NY
St. Jude Donor '06
I dunno what your budget is, but I am selling my brand new h/c setup for 1800 shipped.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,121
Likes: 3
From: Shreveport/Bossier Louisiana
St. Jude Donor '08
I dunno what your budget is, but I am selling my brand new h/c setup for 1800 shipped.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
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Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,526
Likes: 18
From: Santa Fe TX
I did cam only (228/232 +UD pulley +LS2 chain +hi flow oil pump +pushrods +PRC Dual gold springs +tune also), and it seemed to provide more bang for $2000 (someone else's labor)
Than for the $3300 on a budget I spent for 243 Heads and Dynatech Headers and LS6 intake I added a month later. (+ another tune + my labor)
If you do the cam yourself you can probably do it for $1200 with all the supporting goodies and a professional street tune.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,995
Likes: 2
From: Spring Texas
St. Jude Donor '08
You will save money by doing both at once (labor, gaskets, valve springs and retainers, etc.)
I had the same dilemma a few years ago, researched it quite a bit, and then spoke with Phil at DTE for a good 30 minutes. I was also considering supercharging vs. a H/C job.
My decision was to go with a cam, headers, and better air intake first. The results were very good. The next year I added heads (AFR 205) and a Fast 90 intake. The end result is impressive (IMO), but the cam seemed to provide more bang for the buck. BTW, I have a very mild "baby cam" that has a near stock-like idle. I could have gotten more HP with a wilder cam but I really didn't want anything too lumpy.
Below is a link to a comparison dyno from both sets of mods.
http://www.comp-soln.com/Dyno3Run.jpg
These are videos of my car. The first was after the cam, and the second was after the heads:
http://www.comp-soln.com/Chips_C5-lowres.mov
http://www.comp-soln.com/AfterAFR205.mov
Hope that helps.
Chip
I had the same dilemma a few years ago, researched it quite a bit, and then spoke with Phil at DTE for a good 30 minutes. I was also considering supercharging vs. a H/C job.
My decision was to go with a cam, headers, and better air intake first. The results were very good. The next year I added heads (AFR 205) and a Fast 90 intake. The end result is impressive (IMO), but the cam seemed to provide more bang for the buck. BTW, I have a very mild "baby cam" that has a near stock-like idle. I could have gotten more HP with a wilder cam but I really didn't want anything too lumpy.
Below is a link to a comparison dyno from both sets of mods.
http://www.comp-soln.com/Dyno3Run.jpg
These are videos of my car. The first was after the cam, and the second was after the heads:
http://www.comp-soln.com/Chips_C5-lowres.mov
http://www.comp-soln.com/AfterAFR205.mov
Hope that helps.
Chip
I dunno what your budget is, but I am selling my brand new h/c setup for 1800 shipped.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
Includes:
MS4 cam, PRC stage 1 ported ls6 heads, all gaskets, bolts, pushrods... etc
with this setup and a set of headers you would be in the high 400's to the wheels. There are 0 miles on this never installed setup. The reason for the sale is I am going supercharged instead. I am also selling a nx wet kit too.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
From: Brookfield WI
At one point one of the guys on the forum (Vettenuts) posted a graph of various people with QTP headers. The cars were pretty comparable. My car outperformed the others and the only real difference was the cam, so I'm a believer.
There is torque everywhere - sometimes too much. I can be passing someone on the highway, accelerate without downshifting (A4), and have the tires break free if I give it a little too much gas (I'm running Z06 rims and F1 Supercar tires with 3.42 gears). It is kind of fun unless you are not expecting it. It makes me wonder what those guys with 450-500+ rwhp do...
Chip
