Replace entire engine and drive train assembly?
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Flemington New Jersey
Replace entire engine and drive train assembly?
I have a 98 six speed C5 with 190,000 miles on it. It has been the best automobile I have ever owned in my 50 years of owning cars, 5 Vettes including a 57 Fuelie and I bought the 98 new 11 years ago. It still looks good and I am planning on replacing the entire engine drive train. Engine, clutch, transmission and rear end differential? Is there a single source that offers a complete rebuilt assembly? What does it cost and what is the warranty? What is your opinion about me doing this?
Thanks!
Dick Siano
Thanks!
Dick Siano
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
Have you done a compression test? Is the motor burning a lot of oil or tranny giving you issues? I have 136k on my 1997 C5 and everything still shifts and runs great. Heck I did a clutch at 120,000mi and it still wasn't down to the rivets (approx 50% of material still left). The motor made over 410rwhp with a mild cam and heads and is my daily driver with hardly any issues to speak of besides a few electrical gremlins now and then.
Before you go dropping HUGE coin into a complete driveline swap, you might want to evaluate your goals and go from there. A rebuilt RPM tranny probably still costs less than a replacement unit from GM. A totally hopped up 450rwhp LS6 would be cheaper than a crate LS3 with ~390rwhp and still have similar reliability.
Before you go dropping HUGE coin into a complete driveline swap, you might want to evaluate your goals and go from there. A rebuilt RPM tranny probably still costs less than a replacement unit from GM. A totally hopped up 450rwhp LS6 would be cheaper than a crate LS3 with ~390rwhp and still have similar reliability.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,944
Likes: 1,112
From: Hereford AZ
Oh, and I'd sell it and get a new one...(purely anecdotal)
Although on e-bay (and other places) they sell factory 'take outs'; no experience but they sound interesting.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,526
Likes: 18
From: Santa Fe TX
Even better chance it will run for 50 more. Get your money's worth out of it that way, because no one else will give anything for a car with 200k mi.
Even if you get a 30k mile replacement car, chances are you'll have trouble with it before the one you have. These cars are SOLID if well taken care of.
Best bet? Buy a new one, but keep the old one. You won't regret having 2. Seriously I had a mitsubishi 3000GT vr4 twin turbo, with 110k miles, it was having all kinds of issues. For all the electronics in the C5, it does amazing at high mileage. Reward it's loyalty with your own.
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Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 619
Likes: 1
From: ATLANTA GA
What exactly wears out? Maybe seats, brakes, and shocks. All are affordable enough to put into a project.
I mean face it, the car is fiberglass, The engines are pretty much rock solid, the suspensions never seem to really wear out like ex(balljoints etc)
For what its worth, My 120k fresh engine/transmission/diff car has LESS mechanical issues than my friends 35k mile c5z.Im talking issues across the board, controls/features, drivetrain,interior.
Mine was owned by a couple whom really didnt care so much about it either, Not fully abusing or anything they just didnt wash it every day, or wax it to them it was just a "car"
To the original poster-fix it up You can have your engine stuff rebuilt for cheaper keeping all the componets originial like I did. I did it all myself but you could pay someone. You can even do some upgrades too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,352
Likes: 102
From: In the pit, trying to love someone.
I agree with the drive it til it breaks crowd... Is it giving you any problems at 190K? There is a member here who has over 300K on his, and it still runs like a top!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,604
Likes: 8
From: Belleville Il
Do a compression check,,you might be surprised! Just check it over and fix what needs attention. You KNOW the cars history,,rely on that and your maintainence record!!
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Flemington New Jersey
Hi Guys,
I appreciate all of your input to just keep driving. I plan to do that. However, none of you answered my question of availability and cost of replacing the entire drive train, engine, clutch, transmission and rear end?
Thanks!
Dick
I appreciate all of your input to just keep driving. I plan to do that. However, none of you answered my question of availability and cost of replacing the entire drive train, engine, clutch, transmission and rear end?
Thanks!
Dick
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,933
Likes: 30
From: San Rafael CA
new engine ......... $6,000.00
new clutch ........... $ 600.00
new torque tube ... $1,500.00
new transmission ... $2,000.00
new differential ..... $1,800.00
minimum in parts would be about $12,000.00 .... and that is very conservative ..... and doesn't include any labor costs or shipping .... and also leaves aside issues like do you want to replace the A/C compressor or use the current one, or the alternator, power steering pump .... etc.
Just to replace the drivetrain you're probably looking at $20,000.00 realistically.
Why not replace all the wheel bearings at the same time ??? How about shocks ..... what about the brake rotors and calipers ..... the steering rack ????
I don't get the point of your question.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,788
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From: Winchester TN
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There are many many shops that can rebuild your LS1, or you can have them build almost anything you want engine wise - so yes, that is doable and can run from around $4000 for an ls1 shortblock, to sky= limit.
Transmission and Diff - yes - you can buy rebuilt ones, I like RPM Transmissions for both, and again, sky = limit. Price depends on how much improvement over stock you desire. Ask RPM and DTE for price quotes.
The torque tube can be purchased new, or you can rebuild your tube with new rubbers / bearings etc - although this is a little rare for a stock, street driven car in my (limited) experience.
Simply put, yes you can easily find rebuilt and or improved performance drive-train components for your car, whether it needs them or not.
You will not find (as far as I know) one place that will rebuild all of those components, but you can go to someone like the Vettedoctors etc. that will broker all of this work out for you and be responsible for the assembly and tune.
best regards -
mqqn
Last edited by mqqn; Aug 24, 2008 at 05:06 AM.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 619
Likes: 1
From: ATLANTA GA
Here's the minimum prices you'd be looking at .....
new engine ......... $6,000.00
new clutch ........... $ 600.00
new torque tube ... $1,500.00
new transmission ... $2,000.00
new differential ..... $1,800.00
minimum in parts would be about $12,000.00 .... and that is very conservative ..... and doesn't include any labor costs or shipping .... and also leaves aside issues like do you want to replace the A/C compressor or use the current one, or the alternator, power steering pump .... etc.
Just to replace the drivetrain you're probably looking at $20,000.00 realistically.
Why not replace all the wheel bearings at the same time ??? How about shocks ..... what about the brake rotors and calipers ..... the steering rack ????
I don't get the point of your question.
new engine ......... $6,000.00
new clutch ........... $ 600.00
new torque tube ... $1,500.00
new transmission ... $2,000.00
new differential ..... $1,800.00
minimum in parts would be about $12,000.00 .... and that is very conservative ..... and doesn't include any labor costs or shipping .... and also leaves aside issues like do you want to replace the A/C compressor or use the current one, or the alternator, power steering pump .... etc.
Just to replace the drivetrain you're probably looking at $20,000.00 realistically.
Why not replace all the wheel bearings at the same time ??? How about shocks ..... what about the brake rotors and calipers ..... the steering rack ????
I don't get the point of your question.
I think your severely overcharging on everything... 6000 for an engine, 600 for a clutch, 1500 for a torque tube?
First off theres like 3 main componets to a rebuilt torque tube and it does NOT require replaceing the whole thing, your specing out what looks to be a crate motor or a FULLY built motor, and 600 on a clutch would be a heavier duty racing clutch.
Realistically you can rebuilt WHAT YOU HAVE for about 5000 if you resue most of the parts and dont go crazy with upgrades. I paid 2 grand for a fresh stock spec bottom end and a cam upgrade, you might be able to swing some budget heads in there too.
The trans can be rebuilt stock for under 1000 at a shop torque tube is like 300 to rebuild, and the diff even if you went with a built diff from dte you could pick up one for 1200,
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 3
From: East Hampton CT
I think your severely overcharging on everything... 6000 for an engine, 600 for a clutch, 1500 for a torque tube?
First off theres like 3 main componets to a rebuilt torque tube and it does NOT require replaceing the whole thing, your specing out what looks to be a crate motor or a FULLY built motor, and 600 on a clutch would be a heavier duty racing clutch.
Realistically you can rebuilt WHAT YOU HAVE for about 5000 if you resue most of the parts and dont go crazy with upgrades. I paid 2 grand for a fresh stock spec bottom end and a cam upgrade, you might be able to swing some budget heads in there too.
The trans can be rebuilt stock for under 1000 at a shop torque tube is like 300 to rebuild, and the diff even if you went with a built diff from dte you could pick up one for 1200,
First off theres like 3 main componets to a rebuilt torque tube and it does NOT require replaceing the whole thing, your specing out what looks to be a crate motor or a FULLY built motor, and 600 on a clutch would be a heavier duty racing clutch.
Realistically you can rebuilt WHAT YOU HAVE for about 5000 if you resue most of the parts and dont go crazy with upgrades. I paid 2 grand for a fresh stock spec bottom end and a cam upgrade, you might be able to swing some budget heads in there too.
The trans can be rebuilt stock for under 1000 at a shop torque tube is like 300 to rebuild, and the diff even if you went with a built diff from dte you could pick up one for 1200,
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,366
Likes: 249
From: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
There are several C5's that have in excess of 200k miles and are still running well. Just to replace everything unnecessarily would cost more than the car is worth. I would just repair things as needed, which probably won't be for a long time, especially considering how your car has been running. I learned my lesson, don't fix what ain't broken.
Moderator
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 22,625
Likes: 939
The difference in prices I believe is the addition of labor cost by BlackZ06. Remember labor is often an additional 100% of the cost of the parts themselves, sometimes more. If you add in labor for all the prices you just stated, you're right back at blackz06's numbers. Rebuilding an entire car for $10,000-20,000 when its perfectly drivable makes NO sense to me. Mine has over 141,000 on it now and I'm still running a original wheel bearings, differential, torque tube, transmission, and LS1 bottom end....only heads/cam, clutch and headers have been replaced, all for performance reasons, not due to wear or failure.
..... and doesn't include any labor costs or shipping ....
vettekidc5, a clutch can easily be north of $600 + labor to install it.
All his prices seem about what I would expect and normal for a stock rebuild. I would guess you could get an LS1 for about 4000-6000
17801267, LS1 350HP Crate EnginePart #
17801267
Price: $4,899.95
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Oviedo Florida
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