Opinions Needed
02-05-2016, 09:04 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Opinions Needed
I've driven the same vehicle (2000 S10) for 16 years. As practical and dependable as my truck has been, I'm now ready to drive something fun. I fell in love with the idea of owning a Vette about two years ago. In the last few months I've gotten super serious but haven't come across any offers too good to refuse...perhaps until now.
I'm very fond of 99-00 FRCs and coincidentally came across a 2000 Nassau Blue with 55K miles. Perfect opportunity...or so I thought. The seller is asking $15K but I'm certain I can get him down. Since I'm 8 hours away from the seller's location, I asked a senior forum member, Monks, if he'd check it out and pull some codes. Monks kindly obliged, and even refused my offer to pay him. (The guys around here are great, can't imagine a more helpful auto-community.)
I've attached photos and listed the codes below. I'm aware of the EBCM basically being irreparable. I'm just curious y'all think. Any red flags? Financially I'm not in a position to spend money repairing the car, basically all of my "car buying" money will go towards purchase price. Anything beyond a little touch-up painting will have to be postponed for some time.
EXTERIOR: Lots of chips, scratches
INTERIOR: Very dirty, as evidenced by surroundings in CD changer photo, so it's hard to tell what "dirt" is temporary/permanent.
DRIVING: Monks said the car drives great. He owns a pristine FRC and said it drives similar to his, very stiff & quiet (there's a chirp but it's likely a belt/pulley issue).
What do you guys think? Talk me in/out of it.
CODES:
PCM
1571 H C - ASR Desired Torque - Traction Control Torque Request Circuit
TCM
No comm...could be a big issue
SDM
B1001 H
U1040 H C
HVAC
B0361 H - Left Actuator Feedback Short to GND
RFA
U1255 - Serial Data Line Malfunction
U1096 - Loss of Communication with IPC
1064 - Loss of Communication with BCM
1016 - Loss of Communication with PCM
2100 - Left Front TPM Sensor Malfunction
2110 H C - Right Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction
2115 H C - Left Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction
I'm very fond of 99-00 FRCs and coincidentally came across a 2000 Nassau Blue with 55K miles. Perfect opportunity...or so I thought. The seller is asking $15K but I'm certain I can get him down. Since I'm 8 hours away from the seller's location, I asked a senior forum member, Monks, if he'd check it out and pull some codes. Monks kindly obliged, and even refused my offer to pay him. (The guys around here are great, can't imagine a more helpful auto-community.)
I've attached photos and listed the codes below. I'm aware of the EBCM basically being irreparable. I'm just curious y'all think. Any red flags? Financially I'm not in a position to spend money repairing the car, basically all of my "car buying" money will go towards purchase price. Anything beyond a little touch-up painting will have to be postponed for some time.
EXTERIOR: Lots of chips, scratches
INTERIOR: Very dirty, as evidenced by surroundings in CD changer photo, so it's hard to tell what "dirt" is temporary/permanent.
DRIVING: Monks said the car drives great. He owns a pristine FRC and said it drives similar to his, very stiff & quiet (there's a chirp but it's likely a belt/pulley issue).
What do you guys think? Talk me in/out of it.
CODES:
PCM
1571 H C - ASR Desired Torque - Traction Control Torque Request Circuit
TCM
No comm...could be a big issue
SDM
B1001 H
U1040 H C
HVAC
B0361 H - Left Actuator Feedback Short to GND
RFA
U1255 - Serial Data Line Malfunction
U1096 - Loss of Communication with IPC
1064 - Loss of Communication with BCM
1016 - Loss of Communication with PCM
2100 - Left Front TPM Sensor Malfunction
2110 H C - Right Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction
2115 H C - Left Rear TPM Sensor Malfunction
Last edited by craig_vette; 02-06-2016 at 11:36 AM.
02-06-2016, 06:35 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
The headlight door is cracked from being forced down but is easy to replace and the drive gear is probably stripped which is why it won't open. Lots of paint dings otherwise. If the guy didn't take any better care of it mechanically than he did cosmetically I'd be concerned. $15K is 'way too high for that car in that condition. You are looking at a repaint at least ($5K+), plus a general good cleaning of the interior. I didn't run the codes so I can't speak for what issues they represent. The belt chirping could be just a bad belt or a pulley problem as in a loose balancer (not uncommon). If you can buy it a much lower price and are willing to take a chance then go for it. There are plenty of used cars out there in better shape for less money.
Last edited by CaseyJones; 02-06-2016 at 06:42 AM.
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nsogiba (02-06-2016)
02-06-2016, 10:00 AM
#8
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Central Florida
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The owner told me the headlights had new motors with brass gears, but never worked.
The motor was running and the manual adjuster didn't seem to work either.
The traction control/ABS lights were on and the owner said they have been on for the 3
years he has owned the car.
Russ
The motor was running and the manual adjuster didn't seem to work either.
The traction control/ABS lights were on and the owner said they have been on for the 3
years he has owned the car.
Russ
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craig_vette (02-07-2016)
02-06-2016, 10:18 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
Another "the price seems high to me" reply...
02-06-2016, 10:41 AM
#10
Tech Contributor
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
That front bumper contacted something and the paint is cracked. So, that front fascia may need replacing. Wont know till you strip the paint off. A specific panel repaint isn't too expensive..
Some of those scratches may compound out and be a LOT less obvious. Cleaning up the interior wont be difficult.
Another for the PRICE is too high. Make an offer and if you don't get it, walk. See if he will call you back with a purchase offer..
Bill
Some of those scratches may compound out and be a LOT less obvious. Cleaning up the interior wont be difficult.
Another for the PRICE is too high. Make an offer and if you don't get it, walk. See if he will call you back with a purchase offer..
Bill
02-06-2016, 11:32 AM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
We just noticed the CD changer bracket looks rusty. Damn.
Given what I've read about the faulty EBCMs, they're too expensive (and sort of a gamble) to replace. Would there be a way to disengage the ABS/Traction control dash warning lights? Would I just have to live with them always on?
I've been fairly dead set on getting a 99-00 FRC and the EBCM issue seems almost guaranteed to rear it's head, no matter what FRC you get. Is this perception accurate? Or, let's say, out of 10 FRCs, you'd only expect only 1-2 to have the faulty EBCM issue. (Sorry, I know, it's probably hard to say. Just trying to consider the odds.)
Given what I've read about the faulty EBCMs, they're too expensive (and sort of a gamble) to replace. Would there be a way to disengage the ABS/Traction control dash warning lights? Would I just have to live with them always on?
I've been fairly dead set on getting a 99-00 FRC and the EBCM issue seems almost guaranteed to rear it's head, no matter what FRC you get. Is this perception accurate? Or, let's say, out of 10 FRCs, you'd only expect only 1-2 to have the faulty EBCM issue. (Sorry, I know, it's probably hard to say. Just trying to consider the odds.)
02-06-2016, 05:49 PM
#12
Safety Car
I am very suspicious of used cars, just to be clear. I also seem to have diarrhea of the keyboard problems, sorry.
In my youth, I once passed on a chrome bumper Xke convertible for $14,000 in a used car lot because it had a radio shack alarm crudely installed. I figured, with my budget, why look for trouble . A memorable mistake, but one never knows until you put the money down, and I was looking for transportation, not a hobby.
The fact that the owner has had the car for three years without working headlights makes me think it is not going to be a simple fix, and certainly makes the milage less impressive, since you can only operate the thing during daylight hours, and you still might get a ticket anyway just for being on the road in that condition.
Just for fun, if I were a betting man, i would bet the horn also doesn't work. I like my chances, just from the described condition, I think the odds of horn failure better then normal.
Most advice for buying a used car is to put aside about twenty percent of the car buying budget towards fettering the car, as most people sell a car because it has problems.
I would never tell you how to spend your money without your request, but right off the bat, you are going against conventional wisdom. Not that convention can't be bettered in some cases. Going against conventional wisdom with a used corvette requires a skill set I don't own.
I would be very suspicious about the manual adjustor not working, since this is a safety redundancy for the driving lights . I would think this design would be very robust, because of the lawsuit exposure, and hard to make it go inoperable. The fact that the light has new parts and still does not work makes me think, at best, poor stewardship of the machine.
It could very well be the low miles were because the car was hit in the front and was even less roadworthy then its present condition. I deduct this from the last picture, the front corner where the body seems to overhang the front bumper cover, it could be a shadow, but no factory work has a gap like that. These cars have a lot of panel gaps and slight fitmitt issues, but nothing ever is not fitted flush. Check the paint. Most cars of age have had body work, and very slight color mismatches, you have to look hard , it is often visible only from the different paint systems. They match the factory color, but the paint is different so gives a slightly different result. With a car of that color, the paint would probably have to be blended in quite a way back to avoid eye catching color transitions.
I am guessing this car had a body shop repair , and that the finer points needed to complete the repair were not done because of cost, complexity, or both. Who has been working on the car that can't fix the lights or computer over three years, and why, would be the only way to estimate the value of this deal. Buy in haste, repent at leisure.
I would skip any car without replacement computers available, unless you have the ability to redesign the car. It's a computer controlled high market luxo car of some age, not a truck designed for a long term beating. As these cars get older they get more fragile and harder to repair .
I bought a used 03 that had been on and off the market, it had clutch issues. I knew I wouldn't mind investing in the platform, and had set aside part of my purchase money for repairs, so bought the car with some risk and a lower price.
Finding a suitable repair shop was a learning curve I hadn't expected, you might want to check ahead for resources in your area, perhaps they can also help with advice on the purchase.
Once I put the repairs into the car, I saved a couple of thousand against the market price, a fair deal, I thought. Not the best deal ever, but I wanted a good car more than the best deal in town. I attribute my not getting burned to the honest seller and a measure of luck , not any corvette skill on my part.
I had only the slightest idea about the line and Gm product quality. I only figured the car had enough customer support so that I could keep the car on the road as it aged, and I had always enjoyed a convertible sports car, so why not. The expensive part, the cosmetics, were in good shape, and anyone , even me, can replace a part without much skill. At my first car show, I was schooled, these cars are designed for quick assembly only, not ease of repair, and often repairs require skill beyond just replacing parts in and out.
I also knew that in my town, many people make side money by beating everyone else in town to the good deals and then reselling at market price, and I enjoy a more causal start to my day off. I also knew from building my used vinyl record collection, those guys are tough to beat. My only market advantage is that the cars are deeply out of fashion in my area, so I was not competing in a hot market, buying a broken corvette convertible in december is not for everyone, but the drive home was great. Yours will be too, in the right car.
In my youth, I once passed on a chrome bumper Xke convertible for $14,000 in a used car lot because it had a radio shack alarm crudely installed. I figured, with my budget, why look for trouble . A memorable mistake, but one never knows until you put the money down, and I was looking for transportation, not a hobby.
The fact that the owner has had the car for three years without working headlights makes me think it is not going to be a simple fix, and certainly makes the milage less impressive, since you can only operate the thing during daylight hours, and you still might get a ticket anyway just for being on the road in that condition.
Just for fun, if I were a betting man, i would bet the horn also doesn't work. I like my chances, just from the described condition, I think the odds of horn failure better then normal.
Most advice for buying a used car is to put aside about twenty percent of the car buying budget towards fettering the car, as most people sell a car because it has problems.
I would never tell you how to spend your money without your request, but right off the bat, you are going against conventional wisdom. Not that convention can't be bettered in some cases. Going against conventional wisdom with a used corvette requires a skill set I don't own.
I would be very suspicious about the manual adjustor not working, since this is a safety redundancy for the driving lights . I would think this design would be very robust, because of the lawsuit exposure, and hard to make it go inoperable. The fact that the light has new parts and still does not work makes me think, at best, poor stewardship of the machine.
It could very well be the low miles were because the car was hit in the front and was even less roadworthy then its present condition. I deduct this from the last picture, the front corner where the body seems to overhang the front bumper cover, it could be a shadow, but no factory work has a gap like that. These cars have a lot of panel gaps and slight fitmitt issues, but nothing ever is not fitted flush. Check the paint. Most cars of age have had body work, and very slight color mismatches, you have to look hard , it is often visible only from the different paint systems. They match the factory color, but the paint is different so gives a slightly different result. With a car of that color, the paint would probably have to be blended in quite a way back to avoid eye catching color transitions.
I am guessing this car had a body shop repair , and that the finer points needed to complete the repair were not done because of cost, complexity, or both. Who has been working on the car that can't fix the lights or computer over three years, and why, would be the only way to estimate the value of this deal. Buy in haste, repent at leisure.
I would skip any car without replacement computers available, unless you have the ability to redesign the car. It's a computer controlled high market luxo car of some age, not a truck designed for a long term beating. As these cars get older they get more fragile and harder to repair .
I bought a used 03 that had been on and off the market, it had clutch issues. I knew I wouldn't mind investing in the platform, and had set aside part of my purchase money for repairs, so bought the car with some risk and a lower price.
Finding a suitable repair shop was a learning curve I hadn't expected, you might want to check ahead for resources in your area, perhaps they can also help with advice on the purchase.
Once I put the repairs into the car, I saved a couple of thousand against the market price, a fair deal, I thought. Not the best deal ever, but I wanted a good car more than the best deal in town. I attribute my not getting burned to the honest seller and a measure of luck , not any corvette skill on my part.
I had only the slightest idea about the line and Gm product quality. I only figured the car had enough customer support so that I could keep the car on the road as it aged, and I had always enjoyed a convertible sports car, so why not. The expensive part, the cosmetics, were in good shape, and anyone , even me, can replace a part without much skill. At my first car show, I was schooled, these cars are designed for quick assembly only, not ease of repair, and often repairs require skill beyond just replacing parts in and out.
I also knew that in my town, many people make side money by beating everyone else in town to the good deals and then reselling at market price, and I enjoy a more causal start to my day off. I also knew from building my used vinyl record collection, those guys are tough to beat. My only market advantage is that the cars are deeply out of fashion in my area, so I was not competing in a hot market, buying a broken corvette convertible in december is not for everyone, but the drive home was great. Yours will be too, in the right car.
02-06-2016, 09:48 PM
#14
Racer
2000 owner
Being an engineer, I waited until the C5 model had a few years of growing pains before I ordered my Y2K. I love the car, but I'm always fixing problems from inferior quality components. Beware! The 2001 model (and later) were improved and parts are much easier to get for them. I wish I had waited a little longer before I bought mine.
02-06-2016, 10:05 PM
#15
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There are a lot of cosmetic issues with that car. Add the codes that showed up and I think I would keep on looking. For $15K, you should be able to get one that has been better taken care of than that one.
02-06-2016, 11:20 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
02-06-2016, 11:43 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
What if I don't mind not having ABS or Traction Control? Would the code "TCM:
No communication" apply to anything else major?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it needing a complete paint job. I'm not worried about the interior, it may just need an intensive cleaning. With low mileage, solid drivability, perhaps it's a steal at $10K? Thoughts?
No communication" apply to anything else major?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it needing a complete paint job. I'm not worried about the interior, it may just need an intensive cleaning. With low mileage, solid drivability, perhaps it's a steal at $10K? Thoughts?
02-07-2016, 12:32 AM
#18
Drifting
What if I don't mind not having ABS or Traction Control? Would the code "TCM:
No communication" apply to anything else major?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it needing a complete paint job. I'm not worried about the interior, it may just need an intensive cleaning. With low mileage, solid drivability, perhaps it's a steal at $10K? Thoughts?
No communication" apply to anything else major?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it needing a complete paint job. I'm not worried about the interior, it may just need an intensive cleaning. With low mileage, solid drivability, perhaps it's a steal at $10K? Thoughts?
02-07-2016, 06:46 AM
#19
There are better deals right here in the for sale forum than that one. I would walk.
Shakey
Shakey
02-07-2016, 10:57 AM
#20
Racer
Id only bite if the price was right, and you have the time and money to repair it, which depending what else you find...you might not. It would bother me the seller did not at least get the light fixed...cosmetic are one thing, mine has a few battle scars, they happen if you drive the car... There are a ton of these cars out there in that price range. I bought an 04 with 22k miles last year, and overpaid a bit knowingly(bought at a dealer) but wanted the quasi comfort that I had a dealer to yell at if I found a major issue, and thus far, I put 12k on it with no problems. I also hate the whole private party process, I have been on both ends of the equation, and there are a lot of snakes in the grass out there...