Why does the C5 have so many computers for everything?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,352
Likes: 103
From: In the pit, trying to love someone.
Why does the C5 have so many computers for everything?
Why do our cars have BCM's and PCM's and EBTPCMS and QXRMPT whatever the heck they are's?! I understand the PCM to control the engine-no prob. But on a car without active handling or any of that other crap, what are all the expensive electronics really for?
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From: Dear Karma, I have a list of people you missed.
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Think WE got it "bad"?
Check out a C6's system sometime! It even has a separate puter for the transmission. The TCM. 
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,352
Likes: 103
From: In the pit, trying to love someone.
Of what?! Telling my window to roll up or down? I do that with a switch. Make the turn signals work? Turn signals worked fine in my old scottsdale, and that thing doesn't have a computer for ANYTHING. The point I am trying to make, is what realistically do we need all those computers for? Ok, on an automatic transmission, I can see that. But everything else?
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,401
Likes: 1,144
From: Dyer, IN
Of what?! Telling my window to roll up or down? I do that with a switch. Make the turn signals work? Turn signals worked fine in my old scottsdale, and that thing doesn't have a computer for ANYTHING. The point I am trying to make, is what realistically do we need all those computers for? Ok, on an automatic transmission, I can see that. But everything else?
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 7
From: LaPine Oregon
Could be worse...........
Well I'm from a time where the climate control system in my car was a lever that you slide from heater to vent. That a tune up was something you did with a match book cover and a screw driver. No assist to braking, steering, or shifting. Oil bath air filtering and no engine oil filtering. No computer to tell you what % of oil life, you just smelled the dip stick or looked at the color.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,330
Likes: 1,589
From: Western NY
Well I'm from a time where the climate control system in my car was a lever that you slide from heater to vent. That a tune up was something you did with a match book cover and a screw driver. No assist to braking, steering, or shifting. Oil bath air filtering and no engine oil filtering. No computer to tell you what % of oil life, you just smelled the dip stick or looked at the color.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
I've been through those times too. But, on one hand, although the new cars are great, sometimes I miss the old days. It seems, sometimes, that cars now have bells and whistles simply for the sake of having bells and whistles.
Although I truly enjoy driving my C-5, it has developed a few random electrical quirks over the years that are annoying. The door locks usually work OK, but from time to time act up. The tire pressure monitor also acts strangely from time to time, and neither problem seems to have a solution, since they're random occurances.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,352
Likes: 103
From: In the pit, trying to love someone.
Ok, I don't know how old you are..but when is the last time you flooded a car..and had to sit and wait before it would start? How about changing the jets in the carb and timing for altitude correction? Changing the axle ratio used to mean changing the speedo gear in the trans. Panic stops meant locking up all the wheels..before ABS. Tuning used to be about experimentation, now the A/F ratio can be fine tuned for each application. The list goes on and on. I grew up working on and building carb cars, I don't miss them one bit.
Well I'm from a time where the climate control system in my car was a lever that you slide from heater to vent. That a tune up was something you did with a match book cover and a screw driver. No assist to braking, steering, or shifting. Oil bath air filtering and no engine oil filtering. No computer to tell you what % of oil life, you just smelled the dip stick or looked at the color.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
Or you could have bought an '88-'90 Buick Riviera with the CRT touch screen that used eight (8) computers , that was a nite mare to diagnose.
Sometimes I think I miss the old days of my '64 GTO ( 3x2, 4 spd, 4.10) but now cars are faster , lighter, get better MPG, more comfortable. I plug in my scan machine and replace a part.
My FRC has the single zone climate control with the ***** to turn for adjusting temperature and blower speed. I see no need for a computer in that.
I've been through those times too. But, on one hand, although the new cars are great, sometimes I miss the old days. It seems, sometimes, that cars now have bells and whistles simply for the sake of having bells and whistles.
Although I truly enjoy driving my C-5, it has developed a few random electrical quirks over the years that are annoying. The door locks usually work OK, but from time to time act up. The tire pressure monitor also acts strangely from time to time, and neither problem seems to have a solution, since they're random occurances.
Although I truly enjoy driving my C-5, it has developed a few random electrical quirks over the years that are annoying. The door locks usually work OK, but from time to time act up. The tire pressure monitor also acts strangely from time to time, and neither problem seems to have a solution, since they're random occurances.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,962
Likes: 29
From: Van Buren Arkansas
Wounded Warrior Escort '11
The days of the backyard mechanic are essentially over with. Without the manuals and a TechII, you really can't do a lot although at least you have the code display with the C-5's that GM conventiently removed on the C-6 which has a lot more of these modules throughout.
The PCM is a good idea for the tuning capabilities which is why these cars get upwards of 30mpg as opposed to a carb engine and basic electrical that gets half that mileage. The BCM was all about controlling the accessories and reporting errors so that its easeier to find the issues, but again, without a TechII (which are outrageously exspensive), you really can't do anything...GM's method to force the backyard mechanic out of business and them into their dealerships for service.
Heaven help me when something doesn't work right on my '07 as there are no diagnostics now and of course GM speeded up the communication buss with the ODBII/CAN. The computer rolls down the windows 1/2 inch each time you push the door open button so you can open the door! The good part about it though, no more water leaks like the C-5's have.
The PCM is a good idea for the tuning capabilities which is why these cars get upwards of 30mpg as opposed to a carb engine and basic electrical that gets half that mileage. The BCM was all about controlling the accessories and reporting errors so that its easeier to find the issues, but again, without a TechII (which are outrageously exspensive), you really can't do anything...GM's method to force the backyard mechanic out of business and them into their dealerships for service.
Heaven help me when something doesn't work right on my '07 as there are no diagnostics now and of course GM speeded up the communication buss with the ODBII/CAN. The computer rolls down the windows 1/2 inch each time you push the door open button so you can open the door! The good part about it though, no more water leaks like the C-5's have.
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Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
One of the things that GM has done for years is to introduce new technologies on the Corvette. The 97 had all of this technology when it came out and I can't think of any other GM car that had it at that time. Now they all do.
Bill
Bill
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Kinston North Carolina
Wires and Relays!!!!!!!!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 21
From: Waldorf MD
It is true, by sending digital signals a lot of wiring is eliminated. You only need one wire pair going to door to control windows, locks, mirrors, etc.
You young guys probably don't even know what a distributor looks like, crank sensors and computers are MUCH BETTER. Computers made fuel injection easy, more power AND better fuel economy !
You young guys probably don't even know what a distributor looks like, crank sensors and computers are MUCH BETTER. Computers made fuel injection easy, more power AND better fuel economy !
Last edited by Oldvetter; Nov 2, 2008 at 08:23 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 7
From: LaPine Oregon
generally speaking...........
Its now apparent to me that Mike94ZLT1 is making comparable reference to late model vs earlier models. In that regard the additional computers are added for either comfort , convience or performance.
Needed? The mfg'er adds comfort and convience to meet the demands of the larger % of customers. Note; that my personal preference is less 'bells & whistles', as in the '92 Vipers ( no roll up windows or A/C, ect). Sports cars to me should not have climate controled air conditioning or electric windows or a sound system for that matter.
Performance is another matter. Compare the P51 Mustang ( arguably the best psiton driven fighter of all time) to a F-22 Raptor ( which could not fly without computers). No contest in any respect. Pure performance.
There was a time that cars were made to order. A list of options a mile long that one would just 'check off', but now options are in packages or just plain standard equipment. Its economics.
Needed? The mfg'er adds comfort and convience to meet the demands of the larger % of customers. Note; that my personal preference is less 'bells & whistles', as in the '92 Vipers ( no roll up windows or A/C, ect). Sports cars to me should not have climate controled air conditioning or electric windows or a sound system for that matter.
Performance is another matter. Compare the P51 Mustang ( arguably the best psiton driven fighter of all time) to a F-22 Raptor ( which could not fly without computers). No contest in any respect. Pure performance.
There was a time that cars were made to order. A list of options a mile long that one would just 'check off', but now options are in packages or just plain standard equipment. Its economics.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,330
Likes: 1,589
From: Western NY
Boy, DO I MISS THOSE DAYS !!!!!!! I mean the ability to order a car a' la'carte....
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,352
Likes: 103
From: In the pit, trying to love someone.
Its now apparent to me that Mike94ZLT1 is making comparable reference to late model vs earlier models. In that regard the additional computers are added for either comfort , convience or performance.
Needed? The mfg'er adds comfort and convience to meet the demands of the larger % of customers. Note; that my personal preference is less 'bells & whistles', as in the '92 Vipers ( no roll up windows or A/C, ect). Sports cars to me should not have climate controled air conditioning or electric windows or a sound system for that matter.
Performance is another matter. Compare the P51 Mustang ( arguably the best psiton driven fighter of all time) to a F-22 Raptor ( which could not fly without computers). No contest in any respect. Pure performance.
There was a time that cars were made to order. A list of options a mile long that one would just 'check off', but now options are in packages or just plain standard equipment. Its economics.
Needed? The mfg'er adds comfort and convience to meet the demands of the larger % of customers. Note; that my personal preference is less 'bells & whistles', as in the '92 Vipers ( no roll up windows or A/C, ect). Sports cars to me should not have climate controled air conditioning or electric windows or a sound system for that matter.
Performance is another matter. Compare the P51 Mustang ( arguably the best psiton driven fighter of all time) to a F-22 Raptor ( which could not fly without computers). No contest in any respect. Pure performance.
There was a time that cars were made to order. A list of options a mile long that one would just 'check off', but now options are in packages or just plain standard equipment. Its economics.
You seem to understand my question better than most. Other than a car with dual climate AC, how does a computer make my car more comfortable? Seriously, other than running the engine and making my gauges function, I see no need for any of that expensive crap. Why do I need a steering wheel position sensor? What the hell is magnasteer? It all sounds like a stupid gimmick to me. I know that there is a direct link between my steering wheel and the steering rack. I know that the temperature of my car is controlled by me turning a ****, not by a computer. And I know that my windows do not need a computer to roll down, they need me to push a button. I wonder if half this crap could be removed from the car, and a stand alone engine controller would work if you could find some way to make the gauges work....
