Does somebody knows more about chemical coincidences and/or advantages/disadvantages using some %-rate of NITROMETHAN amongst street-gas? Would it be assisting to reach the 100ROZ-level? We normally use already 98ROZ (premium quality) here around in Switzerland (my C5 is also trimmed to this level, therefore no pinging, no knocking nonothing).

May be one of you chemical engineers could shade some light to this "devils-mixture? Any techbased comments would being appreciated. Thanks in advance for replying!

Joe.

 

Joe,

Unless you wish to have a car that won't run, as well as a non functioning fuel system (after the nitrometh eats through the rubber in it) then I recommending avoiding NitroMethane.

 

Nitromethane makes more power (energy from combustion) than gasoline or alcohol. But it is unstable and has an octane rating of around 58.


Nitro like alchol is also an oxygenate in that it carries some of its own oxygen, so it can be run in an extremely rich condition and still burn (T/F Classes).

Back in the 50s and 60 folks would mix it with gasoline for more power. It was commonly referred to as "Cherry pop" when used this way. Many cirlce track racers in the alcohol classes try to slip a little into their alcohol for added power. This is commonly referred to as "pookie". Or"So and so has pookie in his tank".

Nitro can make more power, but should not be considered an octane booster.

 

Nitro methane does NOT mix with gasoline. It is for alcohol fuels only.

 

ding....diNG... DING! Folks, I think we have a winner!

:)

 

Even small amounts of Nitro 3%-5% will eventually take its toll on all plastice and rubber that it comes in contact with. However it is not an unstable guel but it does take extreme pressures to have it ignite properly. In order to get this pressure it would be best to switch to a high dome piston. Bottom line it will burn with Gasoline but not efficently and I would doubt that the pressure in a stock Vette has high enough compression to do so...cheaper, safer more efficent ways to get a boost.

 

interesting... I use to buy nitro from Klotz in Indiana when I made my own alcohol based fuels. I had two gallons left over and called them about using it in gasoline. The rep said "it doesn't mix with gasoilne, only alcohol". I then specifically asked if he meant it didn't do any good in gasoline. He replied that it doesn't mix at all with gasoline and would quickly seperate... kinda like how water and gasoline don't chemically mix.

 

I used nitro mixed with castor oil to run my 2 stroke motors for a hobby.
Not for real cars however.

 

It will change the ratio of air/fuel you want and you will probably run lean. It will also be "on" all the time.

Nitrous will do the same thing but allow you to tune it, etc.

If you really want to mix it with gas you need to use nitro-propane - it has enough of a hydrocarbon tail on it that it will be miscible in non-polar solvents.

 

Perhaps something is lost in the translation? Swiss_Slang?Vs_American_Terminology...

But the existing fuel system can't flow enough to meet the needs of your running 70% or more of nitromethane. Any less than 70% and you won't see the power gains necessary to offset the problems that using this as a fuel presents. I have used it in marine applications, so get some ear plugs... NO PINGING & NO KNOCKING!! LOL someones filled you full of a boat load of it. You won't be able to hear it because your motor will expire faster than the speed of sound. KABOOM..KAPUT... are sounds that the future holds for those who dare..This stuff is very hard to light off but packs a real punch when it lights. Its a little hard starting a motor running on it... if not impossible at lower temps... A ALKY motor and a NITRO motor are two different animals...

Try some nitropropane, this will probably help you put an additional 15-20rwhp down if you run enough of it. As stated above additives exist that allow nitroprop use with petro,, but its not the best way to do it. KLOTZ is one of the largest vendors over here for additives.

Please keep us posted...

Dennis :seeya

 

Even in small quantities (under 5%) nitromethane will fall out of solution (in gasoline) at any temperature under 85 degrees depending on a few other factors. It becomes a jellylike substance. When mixed over 5% it will never blend with gasoline at all.


There is a chemical that can be added to a gasoline/nitromethane mix that will keep it in solution, but any unused mixture will spontaneously explode after a few minutes. (Don't ask, I don't remember what the chemical is... and I would not print it in the forum if I did.)

Nitromethane is an oxygenating agent that will produce its own oxygen when burned. It has a 0 octane rating.

The posts that mention nitropropane (or propylene oxide) are correct. It will mix with gasoline and can be used economically up to about a 12% mixture. I have never had a problem with it, but I know it will destroy some types of o-rings and seals.

 

nitropropane is different than propylene oxide

nitropropane is C3H7NO2


propylene oxide is C3H6O


You would need some sort of emulsifier to make nitromethane mix in gas - just like soap or egg whites can cause oil and water to "mix" to an extent. The emulsifier wouldn't have to be dangerous, though it could certainly be. I would image it would be flammable so it didn't cause other problems.

propylene oxide has also been used as an additive, but is *nasty* stuff. I would highly suggest staying away from this - getting it on your skin is not a good idea and generally can lead to cancer, and the fumes it makes upon combustion are not much better.

All any of these additives are doing is generally adding more oxygen into the mix. You can do the same thing with nitrous in a much more controlled manner.





[Modified by ChrisB, 11:54 AM 1/17/2002]

 

I probably didn't explain my self well enough in my previous post. Let me expand on it now by saying Nitromethane CAN make more power than gasoline or Alcohol. But I would not recommend its use in gasoline as a power adder. See my previous post on Toluene as an octane booster.

The info on Nitropropane is good BTW.

P.O. - Propylene Oxide "also referred to as Pookie" was used in the Pro Stock classes as it is an oxidizer. So, it allowed you to run a richer stochiometric ratio and therefore produce more HP. This is one of the substances covered in the NHRA fuel ban. So, it really isn't an octane booster either. Think of it as being like MTBE.

There was some other fuel which came out in 99 which was being run in the Pro Stock truck classes this was referred to as "Yellow Fuel". I don't know exactly what it was, but on the dyno it made up to 10HP on a Pro Stock truck motor.

I have often wondered if folks wanted to "dope" their fuels why they wouldn't use 100% pure hydrogen-peroxide. H202. I am not sure how it would mix with gasoline, but as it broke down it would be h2 and 02 which is basically hydrogen and oxygen. And since it is 50% oxygen, might make a good oxidizer to add to fuel. I am not a chemist, and there may be good reasons not to do this. I just thought since some of the folks seems pretty chemistry savy I might throw that out there.

If not for use directly in the fuel, I wondered how it might work for use in a water injection system like many turbo cars use.

And if all else fails I guess you can always fall back on good old mono-hydrazine :)

 

Hydrogen Peroxide would not mix with gasoline - it would separate out into layers.

This combination is used at times in liquid fuel model rocket engines. It would not work well in a gasoline engine though - your fuel pump would basically suck up hydrogen peroxide then gasoline - and hydrogen peroxide would of course not oxidize

peroxides in general aren't normally the most stable of compounds. You would need to run probably 50% at least hydrogen peroxide if any effect was to be achieved, and this would not be a substance to treat lightly. It would probably have effects similar to a very strong bleach (on your skin, etc.). Peroxides can decompose into water and a free radical of oxygen, and occasionaly you will get superoxides which are touch sensitive explosives and not good things to have around.

In an automobile setup nitrous is still the best oxidizer out there for general (non-specalized) use.

 

Folks, first thank you all for replying and claryfing the limits of eventual enhancements on street gasoline.

Now, I'm totally "flat-out" and truly amazed and pleased to discover such an amount of highlevel and in-depth KnowHow of you all. You contributed to the ascertainment to remain real happy with that we have already in our gastanks.

Hence, no way to bypass any strong project ideas looking for real "serious" thoughts of real techmods as they are: Head-Cam//Supercharger//Turbo and/or lower-end upgrades as stroked engines.

Again, thank you all very much for your valuable informations.

Joe. Save the gaseous and hopefully not explosive Wave! :blueangel:

 

ChrisB,
Thanks for pointing out the differences between propylene oxide and nitropropane. After reading my own post, I realized I should've worded it differently. The point I was trying to make is... Yes, the two are different, but they act similar when you mix either of them with gasoline and push the gas pedal. Also, neither nitromethane, nitropropane or propylene oxide will raise the octane of fuel. To the contrary, all three will lower the octane rating.


[Modified by FRISKY, 9:06 PM 1/17/2002]