I have a chance to buy a set of the Euro T84's. Which light is going to give me the most light;
A) The T84's with high wattage bulbs....or
B) Stock GM lights with HID's installed

TIA

 

B will give you more light

 

Tried high wattage bulbs and then did the hids hugh difference.
Purchased mine here on the forum
http://www.shop.jwmotoring.com/produ...4&productId=22

 

Both, this is what I'm running

 

HID's

 

I put Euro's and HID's into my car. Unfortunately, the snow hit right before I put it together so I can't properly comment on the light output. I've had it on in the driveway and it seems good though.

Peter

 

Thanks for the input.... I'm thinking that the Euro with the H4 is "old technology"
There was nothing wrong with it at the time, just that HIDS are the next step up in keeping with progress...........

Did I sum that up right?

Thanks

 

HID's without projectors = dumb

you want to put out light all over the place blinding others?

 

I haven't had a problem with oncoming traffic flashing me with HID's in the low beams! They increased the lighting by a great deal and I never adjusted the aiming......
Did I miss something?

TIA

 

yes, you did......
aim them "properly" and you will blind on-coming traffic.

HID bulbs were DESIGNED to be used with a projector.
I can show you pictures of the difference...



HID bulbs in euro T84 housings.
notice no cutoff anymore (euro T-84 housings with a halogen bulb have a cutoff), and light shining everywhere.



HID with projector housings.
nice sharp cutoff, no extra light above the cutoff..

 

[QUOTE=RPOZ4Z;1568473708]yes, you did......
aim them "properly" and you will blind on-coming traffic.

!!!!

Let's read the ORIGINAL QUESTION......

I'm not putting HID's in T84s. I was trying to get some input on which one, A) HIDS or B) T84's gave off the best light.......

So Far it's been the HID's.

 

[QUOTE=LT1vette;1568474277]The answer to your question is the HID's produce the most light aprox 4000 lumens. But without changing to a projector type housing you will blind oncoming drivers.
The T84 euro's put out about 1800 lumens but are suited for the reflectors and do not blind other drivers because of the light cut off.Many people here claim to have never been flashed and they very well may not have been but that still dosen't mean they weren't bright eyed.
I have been in C5's with HID's installed in the stock housings and they do light your way but they do blind oncoming traffic.
Been there too.
I'll keep my high wattage T84's.

 

[QUOTE=corvettebob1;1568475935]



HID's in stock housings are worse than HID's in T-84 housings.....but not by much......

so in answering your question, you're better off with T-84 housings with halogen bulbs.

 

OK, the HID's in the stock housings will likely throw more light but they're not a very oncoming traffic friendly way to do it.

Got a picture of the T84 with halogens to compare so we can see the difference?

Seems strange that the H4 HID bulbs I installed have the illuminated part in about the same spot as the low beam halogen filament and they also have a reflector under and in front similar to what the halogen bulb has. I'd have though if the light is directed the same direction it should give about the same result.

Peter

 

ok, here is a cut and paste from Daniel Stern Lighting about retrofit HID's:

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.

A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.
When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are the driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.
The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.
It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".
HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely, HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.
What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers all say DON'T!
The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the whole system—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage (though it should be noted that "cooking" the lens off a composite headlamp, installing HID optics and re-sealing the lens creates major problems of its own, and does not result in a legal headlamp).

 

Interesting "read" that Stern stuff.
I've been on his website and tried to contact him a few times. I asked him the same question, but he has never answered a question that I've posted, but people seem to take his opinion as "gospel".......

TIA

 

it's not "gospel", but an accurate explanation of how they work.
you can choose to believe it or not.

I do know that what he is saying about allot of foreground lighting is true.
when I had the HID's in the T-84 housings, at first I was amazed at how much light they were putting out compared to the halogen bulbs. they lit up the road directly in front of the car really well and threw some more light down the road (you can see an example of that in my pic posted above), and I did aim them after I installed them.
but after I got used to all of the "new" light that they gave me, I started to feel like I still wasn't seeing as far down the road as I should be. the ACA HID projector housings solved that problem.
He has allot of good points on why the "bulb swap" HID kits are illegal and why they blind oncoming traffic.
during my "experience" with the HID bulb swap kit in the T-84 housings, I saw and experienced everything he described in that write up.

I believe what he is saying more than I believe what I read in the bible!
because, unlike the bible, there is proof of everything he is saying.

 

You asked a question, and it was answered with evidence to back up the answers,
If you can find better information with corroborating evidence please pass it along.
In the end it's your judgement and your car.

 

OK, so you don't have a picture comparing the beam pattern of HID vs Halogen.

BTW, there is a pdf Daniel has linked with a test of a retrofit kit. It's a D2R stuck in a H4 housing. This is completely wrong and won't work and is part of the reason these kits are illegal. That D2R has nothing to block the low beam light from the bottom of the housing and it also might not have the arc in the same spot as the filament of a low beam H4 bulb. Big change in the beam pattern.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong but at the least the HID arc needs to be in the same spot as the filament and there has to be the same reflectors on the HID as the filament. There was another pdf file comparing a HID that more closely resembled it's halogen counterpart and the beam pattern was better but still different.

In the end, I'm not sure the pattern will be good or not but if it's not good I'll be putting halogens or higher wattage halogens into the housings. I bought everything used for $300 and got both halogen and HID wiring so it cost me about the price of the housings.

Peter

 

no, I never took a pic of the halogen bulbs in the T-84 housings, and they were no where near as bright as the HIDs.

but I can tell you that the T-84 housings with halogen bulbs in them had a noticeable cutoff similar to the projector HIDs (and the stock C5 fog lights), and that cutoff went away when I installed the HIDs in the T-84 housings (as you can see in my pic)........