and then you woke up. :)
almost NONE of the heads/cam (non stroker) guys see 420+ sae corrected rwhp. a few do, most very recently done.
of all the C5's that have done heads/cam/intake/headers that are still emissions legal, less than 10% are over 405 sae corr rwhp, much less your quoted 420+..

the guy that started this thread talking about "...450 N/A rwhp.." is your classic "maybe heard a few things but C5's but that's it.." there's stroker build ups, which still mostly don't make emissions legal sae corr 450 rwhp, in fact most, by far the majority of all emissions legal C5 strokers out there are well under 450 sae corr rwhp. and then there's forced induction, which is a whole nuther ball game. plus the ole nitrous discussion...

 

Nocure,

After doing a lot more research I see where your coming from. At this point I think that a S/C would be more in order. Not to mention here in Salt Lake at ~5000 ft. above sea level forced induction cars do better than NA.

And so what if I "maybe heard a few things but C5's but that's it.." that is why I am here asking questions. Is this not a forum for open discussion? Alright then.

I admit knowing a LOT more about LT1/LS1 F-bodies and TT Supras then C5s but that is why I am here.

In any case thanks for the post. S/C it is I think :D

Thanks again.

 

xsfspd,
no, it's totally cool, you are right, the open discussion board is exactly for spreading info, dialoging stuff, etc.
my tone was in response to "another guy coming on the board claiming to have/will have a 450 rwhp C5". I wish I had a dollar for every person making that claim who doesn't have it (or a clue too)..
they are few and very far between.

(and very expensive and also prone to breakage..)

there's a lot of pumped up unrealistic claims made around here. every once in a while I respond to one :)

like all the folks lining up for group buys on a s/c "that needs nothing else, just install the kit, it's complete, no PCM reprogramming needed, no nuthin, slap it on a 10:1 alumin motor" and "it'll easily make 500 rwhp with no drawbacks" and now the price is down to 6 grand installed..

 

Nocure,

The more I read concerning broken springs the more leary (sp?) I become of even a head/cam package. Lets say 400rwhp for $3k, then broken springs.. what a rip!

Let me know what you guys think of this ... All I want is a C5 6-speed that will run with a slightly modded GTS Viper. Yeah, I am sure so does everyone but there are a few running around that I seem to run into a lot, and I do NOT think my '97 Mazda Millenia with a 2.3L supercharged V6 is going to cut it! Wonder why? :confused: J/K!

So if it takes 500hp at the crank then I am happy. I just want a fast car that is not going beak every 5000 miles. I hope this can be achieved otherwise I may have to go back to the Supra TT idea. I'd rather not though as I do really enjoy the C5.

Any input Nocure is greatly appriciated!!! :D

 

XSFSPD,
I think what you want is a good heads/cam package from a reputable tuner.
Make sure to get double springs and you won’t have to worry about it. :)

You should be able to get 400+rwHP easily. How much HP exactly will depend on the details of the setup and how aggressive you want it to be (cam, cats/no-cats, what headers, CR, timing, etc)

I think your goal of running with a slightly modded Viper is very achievable.

I’d recommend ATI blower if you think you’ll eventually want to rebuild your buttom end and run even more boost for extra power. Unless you eventually want to get to ~550+rwHP w/o nitrous I think it’s better to stay NA…

Just my $ .02

 

I broke a double valve spring recently. the "stonger" set I replaced em with is back to single style, though supposedly these are the super-duper-wuper as opposed to the super-duper that I was told on the last build, which broke.

I agree, deal with a reputable tuner.
go for conservative tune. low rev limit (relatively).
with out upgrading block and/or stroking, with cats and passing emissions and with mufflers I'd be happy with 400 sae corr rwhp. go for reliability before those last 10 or 20 rwhp..

and figure you'll still break something down the line. or at the very least have a greatly shortened life span before needing work, like at least a top end rebuild far, far short of the 120k miles that a bone stocker'll go, even being driven real hard.

personally, I have a Doug Rippie Motorsports built engine (blueprinted/balanced). not a stoker, based on a lightly honed/decked 2000 ls1 block with custom pistons, rod bolts, 2.05 valves, etc etc and all the usual. my first build the timing chain broke, which was *real* bad, that was before good aftermarket timing chains were available.
so now I have the one the C5R's use. so my second built motor broke a valve spring, during replacement it was noted that other valves were "on the border" of being in tolerance so they were replaced too...

ya wanna play ya's gotta pay, thats just the way it is.. there aint no free lunch, no free nuthin in this hobby.

I do recommend DRM. they're not the only good tuner, and they seem to make somewhat less than the claimed texas tuners hp wise, though they stand behind their work.

Eug, care to tell xsfspd what a 432 'race' motor costs?

David
can hang with midly modded vipers, and have "shocked" a first gen rt/10 or two on the road course..

 

The "weakness" of the C5's seem to be in the eyes of the "current owners", each expects different from a car, so it's up to you. As far as power goes, the new "X-Package" from Cartek is getting 450 rwhp on a 6spd. If you want to have the most powerful NA car around, contact them.

 

no cure ,
Wow, I’ve never heard of anybody breaking a double spring on LS1. Anything is possible of course. Which springs were these exactly? Silicone based material I hope….
BTW: Aggressive cam profiles are much harder on the valve train, although I assume it wasn’t the case here….


LOL :lol: I’d hardly call it “race” motor.
It doesn’t have any special tricks (LS1 heads, no big cam, TPSI headers, cats, full 2.5” exhaust and was tuned to run on 92 pump gas)
It passes “rolling dyno” emissions and car is a my daily driver…

Anyway, long block was $12.5K when I got it. I don’t know if the price is still the same….

 

Wow $12k hu? Well I think a nice head/cam, headers, exhaust would keep me happy for a while. Give me time to save money for s stroker or a blower.
What do you guys think of head/cam setup with say the ATI Procharger strapped to it?

Hey thanks for all this great input guys!
An educated decision is DEFINITLY best as I always say.

Sorry if I ask what may seem to be dumb questions I am still earning the C5 lingo. Not to mention what tuners offer what, what kind of power and reliability is available from various options (stroker, bigger motor, forced induction, heads/cam).

Thanks


[Modified by XSFSPD, 10:41 PM 2/16/2002]

 

I have a "reasonable" cam profile, mid pack, ie, made to be at the edge of passing emissions. though my motor in general is called a "drm road race motor" LOL. that is it's intended use. lotta red line use :)

so then you spent like mid 20's on the built motor installed..

 

Yeah it’s gotta be pretty hard on it I suppose.
Are you positive it was a double spring you broke?

You need injectors, programming, clutch, LS6 intake, 4”MAF, 4” air duct (if your car is ‘01+ you have the last 3 already) and install.

I already had TPIS and exhaust, but I did get Random tech high-flows.
I also changed entire clutch hydraulics …… a few times :rolleyes: :sad:

It was less than 20 including everything….

 

XSFSPD,

I think it could be a great setup if heads/cam are done specifically for the FI application right from the start :yesnod:
Will make some nice power :D, but I’d suggest doing it only if you’re ready for a rebuild down the road.
It should stay together …for a while I hope, but you should be ready for a rebuild.
You’d be pushing the limits of stock bottom end and anything can happen with FI at that level.
….just a word of advice. :)



[Modified by EuG, 3:14 AM 2/17/2002]

 

it's savage use. every lap, all the time, you're either accelerating as hard as you can or braking as hard as you can :)
it beats you up physically, an then you're dehydrated on a hot summer day an sweated out and blasted out an ya bang yer head on the rollcage :) again :)

absolutely positive on the broken double spring


well, that's not too bad, in this hobby the dollars fly out the window like using toilet paper. gotta be some motor you've got there.. I had to conserve my motor dollars cause of all the other stuff I needed (and ongoingly need to replace)..

vroom vrooom

 

Tell me about it… :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

 

With the A4 and (380+) rwhp its the tranny (I should know as I fried mine 1 hour after getting my new heads/cam power). With the M6 it's the clutch.

Goodluck and GO FOR IT! Just prepared to make some upgrades as you go along with clutch, etc.

Nitrovette :smash:

 

EuG,
What about an ATI Procharger on the stock motor? From what I have read that combo seems to do fairly well for longevity. This car will only see 10k miles/year max!

When you sat bottom end rebuild I am asuming you mean crank, pistons, rods ect.? Go with what? Forged pieces? Who sells these? Just looking at pricing. When I do by my Vette in a few months it will NOT stay stock for long :D

Thanks!

 

I'd have to agree with ...Clutch. Grat car! I love mine!

 

Forget the C5, just drop $10k on a GSXR1000 and attend a few track riding schools - no Viper could touch you. ;)

dave

 

The problem with that idea dgrace is that with a bike I KNOW that I would kill myself the way I drive. I am a bit agressive to say the least. I know it's for my own good that I at least have an airbag, and seat belts :D

 

Should be ok if everything is done right, but either way you cut it you’re taking bigger risk running FI setup as opposed to NA, especially on stock motor.

BTW: I think despite slightly bigger peak numbers a stock motored blown car should run similar 1/4 miles times (trap speed) as a good heads/cam car. The curves are different.
From the roll higher dynoing blown car would probably pull away because you’re “in the band”…

What power level would you eventually like to be at????

Unless you desire for power levels that cannot be achieved without help of forced induction (550+ rwHP) I think it’s better to do it NA.

On the other hand if you’re almost positive that sooner or later you’ll want more and more and will want to get to 550+rwHp I think it’s better to start with a FI system and just rebuild the motor when the time comes….

Oh btw: by rebuild I mean forged pistons (low CR for FI of course), proper rings, good rods, bearing, etc. Stock crank is very strong and as long you don’t spin it to crazy rpm (just keep it within stock rpm range) it’s been tested to pretty sick HP levels (700rwHP+)
If you get a stroker you get a forged crank anyway.

Hope this helps…



[Modified by EuG, 11:19 PM 2/17/2002]