Having the new Pilot sports installed and want to make sure my alignment is good. Car is:

2000 FRC
Lowered 1"
has non run flat 265-35-18 fronts
295-35-18 rear

Thanks,
Jeff

 

Jeff,
Your car does not have the suspension of a Z06, I don't think.
Align the car with the proper settings for it.
I think the Z06 alignment is very similar except there is more negative camber.
You may wear the inside of the tires sooner with the Z06 alignment.
There may be a slight increase in cornering with the Z06 alignment and there may not be. You nor anyone else could tell the difference on the street.
Align it properly on your specs. :)
Dave

 

I have the Z06 specs on mine and it was a definite improvement. Less oversteer for sure and no excessive wear on the inside of the tires. I probably have about 8k miles on the alignment now. I have stock size tires.

 

Thanks Dave and Bassfisher, anyone alse?

 

Z06 Specs were great for me. I have no tire wear problems at all. Car seems a little more responsive to steering input than before. :cheers:

 

2000 A4 here, base suspension, but with Z51 bars & Bilstein shocks.
Pilots as well & lowered.. Aligned to Z06 specs.....PERFECT :yesnod:

 

2000 convertible; stock tires.

c4c5specialist recommended a "modified" Z06 alignment -- his brew -- at 13,000 miles. Great handling, and noticable on the street -- much more responsive.

Now getting Z06 OEM wheels and tires mounted by c4c5. Staying with his specs.

 

So what are these "modified" specs if you will share. I just out on new S02 265/35 and 295/35 and am getting ready to lower. Can anyone help me out with these specs? Thanks

Lane

 

Lane:

They're Z06 specs, but modified to reduce tire wear from camber; I'll try and dig them out and/or e-mail c4c5specialist if I can't find them.

Hopefully back shortly.

:smash:

 

OK, You guys made me do some homework in comparing Z06 alignment specs to coupe/vert specs.
As I said, there is very little difference in specs according to the GM service manual.
Front: The toe settings are identical for the coupe/vert/Z06. No change there.
The camber settings for the coupe/vert allow a maximum of -.70 degrees. The Z06 camber settings allow for a maximum of -1.20 degrees. A whopping 1/2 degree more. More on that later.
The front caster settings for the coupe/vert allow a maximum of +7.9 degrees.
The front caster settings for the Z06 allow for a maximum of +7.4 degrees.
Again, a very small change.
Rear: The toe settings are identical for the coupe/vert/Z06. No change there.
The camber settings for the coupe/vert allow for a maximum of -.68 degrees.
The camber settings for the Z06 allow for a maximum of -1.18 degrees. Another whopping 1/2 degree more.
So just by adding 1/2 degree of negative camber we turn these cars into cornering beasts! It just does not happen that way.
Usually more positive caster is a good thing to increase handling but some coupe/vert owners have gone to the Z06 specs and given up some positive caster. I wouldn't do that.
I think what happens is that some people take their car in for an alignment and get the Z06 alignment on their coupe/vert. If their car really needed an alignment badly then of course the car will drive and handle a lot better. But not because the car was aligned with the Z06 specs. Also some tires may be underinflated before the alignment, then properly inflated after the alignment. The car will then also handle better, turn-in, responsiveness, etc.
I am not saying that is the case with everyone on this forum who did the Z06 alignment, but I bet it explains at least one person.
Another question for those who have the Z06 alignment on their coupe/vert "Do you know where the alignment shop set the Camber on your car? If they just set it within tolerances (specs) then the camber could be set at -.20 degrees and still be considered aligned. If you saved a copy of the before/after alignment sheet, check it and see what changed. I would be very interested in seeing some of those.
I will put up $500 that none of us, that includes me,and except serious corvette racers, can tell the difference in 1/2 degree of negative camber in street driving. This would have to be a blind test. (I know, I know, it's pretty hard to drive blindfolded)
Not trying to flame anyone here but these are just my opinions. :)
The alignments are so similar that I would stay with the specs for my car.
Dave


[Modified by corvette dave, 11:40 PM 2/16/2002]

 

Bad bet, Dave. So we know that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and neither would we, but others apparently do.

Here's what Hib Halverson, who knows a little about Corvettes, had to say:

"Wheel alignment specifications are changed. Camber of -0.75 degree, a whopping 200% increase over other C5s, is used at all four wheels. Ultra-performance radials work best with static negative camber so, the new spec. is to compliment the cutting-edge performance of the Goodyears. According to Mike Neal, the more pliable sidewall of the F1 SC allows that much negative camber without an adverse effect on tire mileage."

200%? Sounds noticable to me. Here's the link:
http://www.idavette.net/hibz06/page2.htm


Why, then, do you think GM changed the specs for the Z06 if they are so similar that no one can tell the difference? Just to confuse the guys in the service bay?

BTW, in your research, you did also discover that the specs as published in the service manual are incorrect (in error, in other words), and that Chevy updated the dealers through a TSB process for the Z06? I assume those are the specs you compared.

Let us know. :cheers:

 

I also have Z51 (FRC) and Bilstien sports. Not sure this makes any difference to alignment?

 

I've got a 98 Vert with T1 sway bar and Z06 alignment specs. I also lowered my car about 1 1/2". :eek: What a difference! :D

 

O.K., sounds great, what is recommended ride height? What is stock ride height?

 

Stu,
If you can, look at a few lowered cars and see how low you like it, then lower yours accordingly. I didn't have to use longer bolts with mine, but the back is as low as it will go with stock length bolts. :D

 

EHS,
You were a little tough on me there! Remember no flames.
There is a chance I can save some fellow corvetters some time and money as I think the Z06 alignment specs are a waste of time on a non-Z06 car driven strictly on the street. And I am 99% sure I can prove it.
Yes, I agree Hib knows a lot about corvettes. I have read his articles before.
They are excellent.
What I do not understand is 200% of what? Explain that one to me, anyone.
Also in that writing from Hib it says the increase in negative camber is a good match for the F1 tires. No increase in wear on the F1s. That is a plus for my argument. Unless I am wrong here, I think the F1 tire is only on the Z06.
BTW: I do not know if the specs I was using from the GM manual are updated ones. It is the manual that can be found online. Mine is in the mail.
I really did not want to go into this but maybe it will help, maybe not.
I have done about 140 road course driving events with C4 and C5 corvettes in the past 16 years. Also drove sports 2000 for 4 years in SCCA.
I have done all my alignments myself for the past 16 years except the C5s, and have tried just about everything to make the corvette go faster.
A race car such as the sports 2000 is very sensitive to alignment change. The suspension is full race and the tires are race slicks. However, the corvette is not as sensitive to small alignment changes if the car is in street trim.
All I can say is that I have tried it.
I still contend that many of those who are feeling a difference are:
1. Getting the Z06 alignment along with new tires, with tires being the improvement.
2. Getting the Z06 alignment on a car that really needed an alignment badly, the improvement being in the new alignment, not the Z06 specs.
3. Getting the Z06 alignment along with lowering the car, the improvement being lowering of the car.
Read the posts here on the subject and you will see that almost all are running a different tire and/or are lowered. Usually that is when the alignment is done, after new tires of after lowering.

EHS,
Do you think most of us look at the before and after sheets of our alignments? My point here is are we getting the full amount of negative camber we want and think we are getting? Alignment techs only have to set the alignment to within specs which are pretty wide sometimes. They are especially wide if you think 1/2 degree negative camber is a large amount.
When I have a car aligned, I tell the tech the exact specs I want and make sure the sheet says that. That way I know I have all the negative camber I want. I hope we are all doing that.
Another thing we did not touch on is that we all drive differently and an alignment that works for you may not work for me. We could talk about that until next week but just suffice it say that we need to find a setup that will work for each of us.
Thanks for the response. Again just my opinion, Just trying to help.
Dave




[Modified by corvette dave, 11:15 PM 2/17/2002]

 

Dave, you're right, no flames intended, just thought that remark by you earlier about:

"I think what happens is that some people take their car in for an alignment and...If their car really needed an alignment badly then of course the car will drive and handle a lot better...some tires may be underinflated before the alignment, then properly inflated after the alignment...I am not saying that is the case with everyone on this forum who did the Z06 alignment, but I bet it explains at least one person."

Might have not been a flame, but I thought I at least smelled smoke. :D

Regarding Hib's article, I believe he was referring to the fact that there is a 200% difference between base C5 and the Z06 camber specs.

For what it's worth, I run my tires always within one pound of where I want them to be (thanks to the DIC) -- even know the variation between the DIC and a real tire gauge.

I had the car aligned at 13,000 miles, no reason other than that I wanted it checked. So unless it was misalinged from the factory and then got progressively worse in less than a year, I know what the car handled like before, and after.

c4c5specialist did the alignment, and I was there the entire time. If you know who he is, you know the job was well done. The alignment cost at least three times as much as at the local Pep Boys, because he spent at least three times as much time getting it all right, and yes he does provide the before and after sheets. And I looked at them, with him, and by myself.

BTW -- Like you, I raced in the seventies, unfortunately motorcycles (road course), not cars. Maybe not directly relevant, but I like to think I know what the rubber feels like when it meets the road (and also cowhide).

Cheers!

:seeya

 

EHS,
Hib says that the Z06 gets .75 degrees of negative camber. The coupe can get .50 degrees of negative camber and be in specs. I still do not understand how this is 200% but I guess it's really not important.
I would love to see your caster, toe and camber settings before and after your alignment. Yes, I am familiar with C4C5 as I have read many of his posts.
They are excellent and I look forward to them.
I don't doubt that you could feel a difference in a Z06 alignment or modified version of it. I am probably not being clear but what I am trying to say is this.
Take a C5 coupe and properly align it with C5 specs. Drive it for a few weeks.
Now put it back on the alignment rack and align it to the Z06 specs. This will only give you .50 more negative camber. The manual says the toe is the same. I just don't think .50 change in camber is noticeable to the average driver on the street. I don't think I could tell the difference.
What I want to see is an apples to apples comparison and in most cases we are not getting this. Guys are lowering or adding new tires, sway bars, shocks, wheels, etc. and then aligning the car. I don't think we get a fair comparison this way.
It is more important to align it to your exact specs, as C4C5 has done for you, than to let a tech align it to Z06 specs and letting him just align it within tolerances. That is really my point.
I have talked to so many people at corvette events about how great their cars handled after an alignment. When asked about the before and after specs, they had no clue what they were. All they knew is that their car handled better.
Probably did. But could they tell .50 degree difference in camber alone?
I put the benefits of a Z06 alignment right up there with SS lines, TB bypass, aftermarket brake pads and others. Little or no improvement. This is assuming street use and everything else being equal.
Dave

 

EHS, thanks in advance if you can get me those specs.


Lane

 

For better handling on any Vette an extra degree of negative camber will make a huge difference on handling 2+degrees unreal.Im not sure I THINK its toe in???? but adding a little more helps prevent ultra tire wear.I'm sure this would make for an awful drag set up due to the fact that your tire patch is set up for cornering and not straght line accelaration.
I'm trying to find a happy medium being I'm no longer willing to lower due to my LPE twin turbo plumbing and its an 800 hp+ daily street car.This next couple weeks I'm adding T-1 bars and coil overs and I will leave the alignment alone.I just wish some one would make a 335/30/18 like the KD's tread wear of 40 not 200 like my pilots that at 8000 miles look 75-80 and I have excess spin like most. my monster tires(BRAGGARD,SHOW OFF,TOUGH GUY)but I have a fun problem most dont you see when I turn my adjustable boost unit from position=1 to position-3 it gets fun.You turn your boost to.085 BAR ! BAR equals 1 atmosphere 14.7 Lbs. of boost,I slowly accelerate to 100 mph I
then punch it and smoke those large rubber (GREAT TIRE) circles like its 2nd gear at 60 and you punch it not quite a hole shot but there going.
I also have runway access and I've done several 100 to 200 and I know when my bars and shox are on.
When I talk to my alignment guy I'll share my knowledge with all soon not just pick a post and brag.But I will be having my my car aligned to his spec. which is mild steetable auto cross style and Its not tires you replace in 2 weeks,he shaves about 25% of your tire life and and the size tire I have has choises of
perelli or Plot Sports I Know its our biger seller and for good reason
Judge me not as a tottalAs. Ho give 3% humble>Have a great eve David Smilovic