Run without thermostat?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,754
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From: Nokomis FL
Run without thermostat?
I had a stuck thermostat several weeks ago. I couldn't find one that night so I popped it out of the housing and off I went.
I've been running that way for a month in sunny Florida and the eng temp has never gone above 180.
Is the any issues when running without one??
I've been running that way for a month in sunny Florida and the eng temp has never gone above 180.
Is the any issues when running without one??
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 0
From: Nokomis FL
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Rochester NY
Running without a thermostat is not the way to go.
In fact, it can actually cause an engine to run hotter eventually.
The reasoning behind this is:
As the engine warms up there is a certain restriction that the thermostat induces. This restriction will slow the coolant down and cause it to stay in the radiator longer. This causes the heat to 'exchange' as it's supposed to.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
It's all about the coolant trapping the heat, pulling it from the pieces that get hot.
Remember also, that if you run 25% antifreeze (for it's anti-corrosion properties) with 75% water (assuming you CAN run that small an amount of antifreeze from a winter protection standpoint) you will get a better coolant mixture. Water has less surface tension than glycol/antifreeze so it will get up into the nooks/crannies better to extract the heat.
There are a LOT of good readings on the web about cooling systems. The experts all seem to agree with the above.
I do hope this helps,
Jim
In fact, it can actually cause an engine to run hotter eventually.
The reasoning behind this is:
As the engine warms up there is a certain restriction that the thermostat induces. This restriction will slow the coolant down and cause it to stay in the radiator longer. This causes the heat to 'exchange' as it's supposed to.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
It's all about the coolant trapping the heat, pulling it from the pieces that get hot.
Remember also, that if you run 25% antifreeze (for it's anti-corrosion properties) with 75% water (assuming you CAN run that small an amount of antifreeze from a winter protection standpoint) you will get a better coolant mixture. Water has less surface tension than glycol/antifreeze so it will get up into the nooks/crannies better to extract the heat.
There are a LOT of good readings on the web about cooling systems. The experts all seem to agree with the above.
I do hope this helps,
Jim
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 57
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From: Rochester NY
AND, as the Old Rotor Head alluded to...
Running too cool will not allow the water in the engine oil to burn off as it should. Every time you run your car and it warms up, and then you shut it off, there is condensation that forms INSIDE the block and heads where the oil runs.
If you don't allow the engine to warm up sufficiently then this water will not be boiled off as it should. Bad juju.
Jim
Running too cool will not allow the water in the engine oil to burn off as it should. Every time you run your car and it warms up, and then you shut it off, there is condensation that forms INSIDE the block and heads where the oil runs.
If you don't allow the engine to warm up sufficiently then this water will not be boiled off as it should. Bad juju.
Jim
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,152
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From: South Western Ontario
As the engine warms up there is a certain restriction that the thermostat induces. This restriction will slow the coolant down and cause it to stay in the radiator longer. This causes the heat to 'exchange' as it's supposed to.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
Any car that only overheated without a thermostat had some other cooling system issue because the overheating was not caused by the coolant flowing too quickly.
Peter
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 57
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From: Rochester NY
and you just keep believing that Peter and spreading untruths and others will suffer from the same issue.
In FACT, the professionals who design automobile cooling systems run thermostats in the cars for THAT reason and others.
I'm sorry you didn't do your research over the years as I have.
Jim
In FACT, the professionals who design automobile cooling systems run thermostats in the cars for THAT reason and others.
I'm sorry you didn't do your research over the years as I have.
Jim
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Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: South Western Ontario
No, not one professional who designs cooling systems has ever put in a thermostat so that the coolant could go slower to keep the engine from overheating. If you know anything at all about thermodynamics you would know that claim is complete rubbish. The thermostat is there to keep the engine at the designed operating temperature.
It's the equivalent of saying that putting a fan on the radiator will cause the car to overheat because the air is moving over the radiator too fast to cool it. We all know that isn't true.
As I posted before, If the car only overheats without a thermostat then there was something else went wrong. It was not because the cooling was flowing too fast. Most likely, the crappy impeller on the water pump quits pumping correctly without some back pressure.
The "car experts" who have perpetuated this myth over the years really **** me off. I've even read about it in magazines for crying out loud.
Peter
It's the equivalent of saying that putting a fan on the radiator will cause the car to overheat because the air is moving over the radiator too fast to cool it. We all know that isn't true.
As I posted before, If the car only overheats without a thermostat then there was something else went wrong. It was not because the cooling was flowing too fast. Most likely, the crappy impeller on the water pump quits pumping correctly without some back pressure.
The "car experts" who have perpetuated this myth over the years really **** me off. I've even read about it in magazines for crying out loud.
Peter
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 19,450
Likes: 1,155
From: Dyer, IN
AND, as the Old Rotor Head alluded to...
Running too cool will not allow the water in the engine oil to burn off as it should. Every time you run your car and it warms up, and then you shut it off, there is condensation that forms INSIDE the block and heads where the oil runs.
If you don't allow the engine to warm up sufficiently then this water will not be boiled off as it should. Bad juju.
Jim
Running too cool will not allow the water in the engine oil to burn off as it should. Every time you run your car and it warms up, and then you shut it off, there is condensation that forms INSIDE the block and heads where the oil runs.
If you don't allow the engine to warm up sufficiently then this water will not be boiled off as it should. Bad juju.
Jim
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,506
Likes: 0
From: This is not a Song, It's an Outburst: Or, The Establishment Blues; Sixto Diaz Rodriguez
I had a stuck thermostat several weeks ago. I couldn't find one that night so I popped it out of the housing and off I went.
I've been running that way for a month in sunny Florida and the eng temp has never gone above 180.
Is the any issues when running without one??
I've been running that way for a month in sunny Florida and the eng temp has never gone above 180.
Is the any issues when running without one??
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,088
Likes: 1,829
From: Metro Detroit Michigan
As the engine warms up there is a certain restriction that the thermostat induces. This restriction will slow the coolant down and cause it to stay in the radiator longer. This causes the heat to 'exchange' as it's supposed to.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
If the coolant flows faster through the system it doesn't pull the heat from the heads and block as it should because it doesn't stay in the heads and block as long as it should either.
I think what's going on when a restriction at the engine outlet helps, is that it has increased coolant pressure in the engine, raising the boiling temperature. Regardless of what a temperature gauge says, there can be spots, like near the exhaust ports, where the water gets much hotter. Coolant in these areas can flash to steam without sufficient pressure.
As I recall, this was mostly a problem which came up years ago in cars with a very low, or no cooling system pressure. A restriction at the outlet was an effective bandaid.
It's also possible that in these low pressure systems, the inherent pressure drop at the pump inlet, or within the pump itself, was enough to cause hot coolant to flash to steam. Slowing travel through the radiator could have produced a lower temperature at that point, and made it a little more resistant to changing to steam. Lowering the circulation speed could also have resulted in less pressure drop on the suction side of the pump.
Pro
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 596
Likes: 2
From: Houston Texas
No, not one professional who designs cooling systems has ever put in a thermostat so that the coolant could go slower to keep the engine from overheating. If you know anything at all about thermodynamics you would know that claim is complete rubbish. The thermostat is there to keep the engine at the designed operating temperature.
It's the equivalent of saying that putting a fan on the radiator will cause the car to overheat because the air is moving over the radiator too fast to cool it. We all know that isn't true.
As I posted before, If the car only overheats without a thermostat then there was something else went wrong. It was not because the cooling was flowing too fast. Most likely, the crappy impeller on the water pump quits pumping correctly without some back pressure.
The "car experts" who have perpetuated this myth over the years really **** me off. I've even read about it in magazines for crying out loud.
Peter
It's the equivalent of saying that putting a fan on the radiator will cause the car to overheat because the air is moving over the radiator too fast to cool it. We all know that isn't true.
As I posted before, If the car only overheats without a thermostat then there was something else went wrong. It was not because the cooling was flowing too fast. Most likely, the crappy impeller on the water pump quits pumping correctly without some back pressure.
The "car experts" who have perpetuated this myth over the years really **** me off. I've even read about it in magazines for crying out loud.
Peter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 987
Likes: 1
From: Braidwood Il.
The engine was designed to operate at a specific temp. and without the thermostat in the engine it won't ever get to that temp.
So put in the stat and it will perform better then it is now, and most likley your mpg will improve also.
So put in the stat and it will perform better then it is now, and most likley your mpg will improve also.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,754
Likes: 0
From: Nokomis FL
