Short Shifter effort Mod
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Perhaps now you can see why some of us wish to know all we can find out about how things work and their effect on other systems when we are modding our cars. Based on your story your friend is now driving around with a transmission needing a serious repair thinking he has solved the problem because you and him did not fully understand the function of the system you were modifying.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,498
Likes: 4
From: Brentwood TN
Perhaps now you can see why some of us wish to know all we can find out about how things work and their effect on other systems when we are modding our cars. Based on your story your friend is now driving around with a transmission needing a serious repair thinking he has solved the problem because you and him did not fully understand the function of the system you were modifying.
Knowing all the details and inner workings doesn't fix dumb @$$.
Charlie
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Knowing the layout of the parts, exactly how the mechanism worked, and whether the line drawing was correct or had he ever rebuilt a transmission would have made absolutely no difference and had absolutely no effect one way or the other on the result of the mod. He put in too thick a washer, apparently managed to unplug or damage the reverse lockout solenoid, and was horsing around.
Knowing all the details and inner workings doesn't fix dumb @$$.
Charlie
Knowing all the details and inner workings doesn't fix dumb @$$.
Charlie
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
This is what I'm talking about. The detent has absolutely nothing to do with his reverse problem. Putting in a washer or even completely removing the detent would not be the cause of allowing the transmission to shift into reverse while moving. Had you known this you would have known to look for the real cause of the problem. Apparently, at least according to your narration, you didn't.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,266
Likes: 8
From: Indian Rocks Beach FL
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
the reverse lockout functionality is exactly why I haven't done this mod yet, I had also heard that doing the anti-venom mod it could cause the car to be able to be shifted into reverse while moving...so there is actually a different part that does this and has absolutely nothing to do with the detent correct?
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 4
From: Broward County Florida
Is there a general consensus as to what the preferable thickness of the washer should be? To be honest, I don't want to get under there and play around with different thicknesses and play with the shifter. I'd like to install 1 piece that everyone more or less agrees with.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho.
but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that.
I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho.
but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that. I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,554
Likes: 33
From: Not on either liberal coast.
Is there a general consensus as to what the preferable thickness of the washer should be? To be honest, I don't want to get under there and play around with different thicknesses and play with the shifter. I'd like to install 1 piece that everyone more or less agrees with.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho. but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that.
I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho.
but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that. I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I also wanted to avoid repeat experimentation since it usually takes longer to get the car up into the car than to add the washer.
In the bulk fastener aisle of ACE HARDWARE or TRUE VALUE HARDWARE, there are bins of specialized fasteners, washers, etc. I found a copper washer that worked just right for me. The ID needed to be opened up just a little to fit the bolt, but the OD fit the machined recess just perfect.
I have a lift to make the job easier, so I later decided to machine the washer down a few thousands to make it slightly thinner. I didn't want the modification to make the shifter feel to loose/sloppy.
Your HURST shifter may need a simple "neutral alignment" using the oem pin from the original shifter (or appropriate size drill bit). You can find past threads on that procedure using those keywords in C5 Tech, using search or search this forum (in the red banner).
Last edited by hotwheels57; Nov 24, 2009 at 01:28 PM.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: North Las Vegas NV
My shifter in B&M
I have had a .070 in mine since the begining in 2005. It still provides good feel while going through the gate. My brand of shifter is a B&M and I don't know how that compares with your Hurst. If you get a .050, .070 and a .090 your should be able to get it right on for your taste. You just have to put it in and jump in the drivers seat to check it out, you will know right away what is right for you.
Is there a general consensus as to what the preferable thickness of the washer should be? To be honest, I don't want to get under there and play around with different thicknesses and play with the shifter. I'd like to install 1 piece that everyone more or less agrees with.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho. but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that.
I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho.
but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that. I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 7
From: LaPine Oregon
general concenus ?
Is there a general consensus as to what the preferable thickness of the washer should be? To be honest, I don't want to get under there and play around with different thicknesses and play with the shifter. I'd like to install 1 piece that everyone more or less agrees with.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho. but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that.
I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I'm going to be installing a Hurst short throw (30%) soon and just want to know what others have used.
As things stand now, I don't need it with my stock shifter--i think it shifts just fine. It does **** me off when I get locked out of first gear at a stop light tho.
but as others have posted here, this mod wont help that. I just want to be prepared for what i might have to do once the hurst goes in.
I have a Venom modified aluminum bolt and it is .062 shorter than the detent bolt in my OEM M12. What consenus is needed , Venom did the research and testing years ago.
DevilMan02 are use installing the C5 straight stick Hurst or are you using the C6 Hurst (391 5086)?
The Hurst are 35% shorter throw than the OEM C5 shifter but this adds to the increased effort and increased notchy feel. After swapping my late '07 C6Z06 shifter (using the 2" Hurst ball)
for a C6 Hurst that has a modified two inch extended shifter arm ( which decreases the shifting effort and is the same throw as the C6 Z06 shifter), using the lightest bias tension spring combo (in the Hurst package), I modified a detent bolt by shortening it .062. These mods and the quailty of the Hurst construction gives me (obviously subjective) the best drivable shift effort and precision that I've come across. We have /had three (3) C5es that I have modified . The wife likes the C6Z06 in her 2000 FRC with the Venom detent bolt. The other FRC has just the C6Z06 shifter assembly in it at present. The C6 Hurst is in my '01 Z06.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 890
From: South Western Ontario
Just wondering.....Have you actually rebuild a manual C5 tranny? It's been my understanding that the only purpose, of the ball and spring, is for the neutral detent only....and has nothing to do with detent force in a selected gear. I do have the overhaul manual, and cannot find a picture depicting the rod with detents shown in your initial post.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
I don't know about anyone else but the 2 T56 tranny's I have both had captured detent *****. It came out in one piece with the spring and ball all attached.
Peter
Last edited by lionelhutz; Jan 10, 2010 at 12:20 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 7
From: Santa Maria Ca.
I used 2 copper washers on mine about 9 months ago,totaling 3/32" thickness,and it feels just like I want it.
Tried 1/8" first,a little too soft on the detent.
The detent bolt on mine was the "captured ball" type also-I remember thinking when I looked at it that it probably wouldn't be too cool if that ball fell out of there and started making it's way through the inside of the trans-
As for the reverse lockout discussed earlier-on my 98,if it gets unplugged,reverse is locked out altogether,it only opens the reverse gate if the key is on and I'm stopped, or moving less than 3 mph.
No power to the solenoid = no reverse.
According to some others on the forum,this is the opposite of how it's supposed to work,but the 98 GM shop manual confirms that mine is working the way it's supposed to,but this may have changed in the later models
Be interesting to find out-Does your Vette go into reverse with the key off?
If you shut it off in reverse,then take it out of reverse,will it go back in without turning the key on?
just kinda wondering...
Tried 1/8" first,a little too soft on the detent.
The detent bolt on mine was the "captured ball" type also-I remember thinking when I looked at it that it probably wouldn't be too cool if that ball fell out of there and started making it's way through the inside of the trans-
As for the reverse lockout discussed earlier-on my 98,if it gets unplugged,reverse is locked out altogether,it only opens the reverse gate if the key is on and I'm stopped, or moving less than 3 mph.
No power to the solenoid = no reverse.
According to some others on the forum,this is the opposite of how it's supposed to work,but the 98 GM shop manual confirms that mine is working the way it's supposed to,but this may have changed in the later models
Be interesting to find out-Does your Vette go into reverse with the key off?
If you shut it off in reverse,then take it out of reverse,will it go back in without turning the key on?
just kinda wondering...
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
From: North Las Vegas NV
