Stock Motor with Maggie or a 427 ??
10-29-2010, 11:15 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
there is no gut wrenching TQ with a maggie, or any FI for that matter ...IMO
build a badass NA motor, then you will feel instant TQ
build a badass NA motor, then you will feel instant TQ
10-29-2010, 11:16 AM
#22
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
If you are building a short block anyway, it doesn't cost that much more to go bigger, certainly not any more than the cost of a blower.
10-29-2010, 11:25 AM
#23
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St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12
simplicity
Is the blower cheaper to make 600+ hp ? Yes it is but that does not make it better.
can drive it anywhere.
simplicity comes into play.
Some people like all motor cars
10-29-2010, 01:52 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
LS7 but like I said that is a magic number for most of us and quite desirable.
10-29-2010, 02:17 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
and what one finds as "grunt" is relative. ive been in both, driven both, and raced both...there is a reason I spent money on a bigger cube motor than a hairdryer
10-29-2010, 03:49 PM
#27
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Again, to get to those power levels with a blower you have to have boost at a level that the stock block won't handle it for long so you have to figure in the cost of a forged bottom end with the cost of the blower.
If you are building a short block anyway, it doesn't cost that much more to go bigger, certainly not any more than the cost of a blower.
If you are building a short block anyway, it doesn't cost that much more to go bigger, certainly not any more than the cost of a blower.
There's plenty of people in the FI section with 600+rwhp on stock engines (search the 1st page even) - In fact, my last LS1 had over 600rwhp on the stock engine. Drove it 20k miles all over the southeast before I sold the car.
Right now on the first page, an '03z with stock engine except for headers and intake with a meth kit and 9psi is pushing 680+rwhp.
Long after any N/A motor has used all the tricks, a boosted engine is just getting started.
10-29-2010, 04:08 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Kidding, right?
There's plenty of people in the FI section with 600+rwhp on stock engines (search the 1st page even) - In fact, my last LS1 had over 600rwhp on the stock engine. Drove it 20k miles all over the southeast before I sold the car.
Right now on the first page, an '03z with stock engine except for headers and intake with a meth kit and 9psi is pushing 680+rwhp.
Long after any N/A motor has used all the tricks, a boosted engine is just getting started.
There's plenty of people in the FI section with 600+rwhp on stock engines (search the 1st page even) - In fact, my last LS1 had over 600rwhp on the stock engine. Drove it 20k miles all over the southeast before I sold the car.
Right now on the first page, an '03z with stock engine except for headers and intake with a meth kit and 9psi is pushing 680+rwhp.
Long after any N/A motor has used all the tricks, a boosted engine is just getting started.
10-29-2010, 04:17 PM
#29
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St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12
Kidding, right?
There's plenty of people in the FI section with 600+rwhp on stock engines (search the 1st page even) - In fact, my last LS1 had over 600rwhp on the stock engine. Drove it 20k miles all over the southeast before I sold the car.
Right now on the first page, an '03z with stock engine except for headers and intake with a meth kit and 9psi is pushing 680+rwhp.
Long after any N/A motor has used all the tricks, a boosted engine is just getting started.
There's plenty of people in the FI section with 600+rwhp on stock engines (search the 1st page even) - In fact, my last LS1 had over 600rwhp on the stock engine. Drove it 20k miles all over the southeast before I sold the car.
Right now on the first page, an '03z with stock engine except for headers and intake with a meth kit and 9psi is pushing 680+rwhp.
Long after any N/A motor has used all the tricks, a boosted engine is just getting started.
There are two sides to the coin.
No one is arguing that FI makes exponentional more power, but you aint using it on the streets anyway. At 600 rwhp traction is sketchy at best anyway so anything beyond that is really just for dyno racing/bragging... unless your running a dedicated drag car.
Tire spin at 100 is cool to say until you put it into the gaurd rail.
Last edited by 99blancoss; 10-29-2010 at 04:22 PM.
10-29-2010, 05:15 PM
#30
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No one is arguing that FI makes exponentional more power, but you aint using it on the streets anyway. At 600 rwhp traction is sketchy at best anyway so anything beyond that is really just for dyno racing/bragging... unless your running a dedicated drag car.
Tire spin at 100 is cool to say until you put it into the gaurd rail.
Tire spin at 100 is cool to say until you put it into the gaurd rail.
And another thing, what the hell does your last sentence have to do with this thread?
10-29-2010, 05:58 PM
#31
Race Director
To get 750 HP out of 346 CI requires boost levels that will make short work of a stock bottom end. You have to go forged. When you combine the price of the forged bottom end, the supercharger and supporting hardware you could have just gone bigger cubes and ended up with the same money spent.
Well, yeah, I was assuming a forged bottom, but good luck getting that kind of power NA. 346s are capable of lots more than 750, I was just picking a number that was unreachable NA. As far as dollars spent go, the sky's the limit, either way, however, FI's gonna get you more power. Ask the guy that has a couple of threads about his custom block, big cubes motor, and see what he says about a NA build; dollar-wise.
10-29-2010, 06:14 PM
#32
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St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12
Josh
It was a stock motor that was the whole point.
His tune is fine, nothing wrong with the engine just that the FI has worn things down and its down on power and getting blow-by so now he wants to do it right. He's keeping the FI but we're going to build him an engine that was meant for it at the correct compression and he is going to turn up the boost
and be worry free.
last sentence was this:... there is only so much power you can use unless your drag racing and or are on a prepped track. It makes perfect sense and it addressed your argument in the quotes. You like boost I understand but there is a negative side to it that you wont acknowledge so there is no sense talking with you about it, your in denial. .... not to mention it weighs how much on the nose of the 50/50 Vette there by altering it's weight distribution. You don't want a nose heavy car in the corners.
Yes I think boosted engine are awesome we build for them all the time, but they are not the end all when it comes to performance. Simplicity has its advantages. FI can be done right and be dependable but it is not cheap by any means to do it as such.. where you don't have to work on the car all the time to keep it running perfect all the time just by adding gas to it and the occasional meth.
Its good for some people but not for everyone, there should not be a need to argue about it. Its personal taste.
It was a stock motor that was the whole point.
His tune is fine, nothing wrong with the engine just that the FI has worn things down and its down on power and getting blow-by so now he wants to do it right. He's keeping the FI but we're going to build him an engine that was meant for it at the correct compression and he is going to turn up the boost
and be worry free.last sentence was this:... there is only so much power you can use unless your drag racing and or are on a prepped track. It makes perfect sense and it addressed your argument in the quotes. You like boost I understand but there is a negative side to it that you wont acknowledge so there is no sense talking with you about it, your in denial. .... not to mention it weighs how much on the nose of the 50/50 Vette there by altering it's weight distribution. You don't want a nose heavy car in the corners.
Yes I think boosted engine are awesome we build for them all the time, but they are not the end all when it comes to performance. Simplicity has its advantages. FI can be done right and be dependable but it is not cheap by any means to do it as such.. where you don't have to work on the car all the time to keep it running perfect all the time just by adding gas to it and the occasional meth.
Its good for some people but not for everyone, there should not be a need to argue about it. Its personal taste.
Last edited by 99blancoss; 10-29-2010 at 06:16 PM.
10-29-2010, 06:20 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10
Well, yeah, I was assuming a forged bottom, but good luck getting that kind of power NA. 346s are capable of lots more than 750, I was just picking a number that was unreachable NA. As far as dollars spent go, the sky's the limit, either way, however, FI's gonna get you more power. Ask the guy that has a couple of threads about his custom block, big cubes motor, and see what he says about a NA build; dollar-wise.
As to "the guy", you can always find people who have had trouble with whatever you they are trying to accomplish. There are plenty of threads on here about people having problems with stock block rebuilds.
Last edited by Mark C5; 10-29-2010 at 06:23 PM.
10-29-2010, 08:39 PM
#34
Instructor
These cars are good at 600 rwhp in terms of parts breakage, and will run high 9's, above that threshold it gets problematic fast...
10-29-2010, 09:51 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
You would have to make the motor all soft with low compression. Compression bleeds off boost. With a right cam and great heads the proper built NA motor will beat the pants of the first car to 160mph. Peak HP number are for supras and dyno queens.
10-29-2010, 10:35 PM
#38
Safety Car
Hot rodded cars are like boats - I have a few of each and a long time ago when I was a young fella an old guy told me he's never met a guy yet who said he had enough horsepower either in a car or a boat, and I finally agree with him 
Soooooooooooooooo do it right the 1st time, I wish I did!
Soooooooooooooooo do it right the 1st time, I wish I did!
10-30-2010, 11:17 AM
#39
Race Director
Thread Starter
Wow this thread took off..
Glad to see the opinions.. More info here is needed from me..I mechanically overrevved my motor going to 2nd instead of 4th going through the traps 2 years ago.. The car since then has a tick.. Checked the pushrods and the valves seem ok (did a compression check) but not a leak down..Think I have a blown lifter..
Anyway.. The motor scares me now and putting a blower on without doing more deeper investigative replacement of parts.. soooooo.. Thinking that I can probably pick up a 427 from another builder who changed his mind might be a good idea.. and almost as cheap..
Not going crate motor.. I can bulletproof my current motor and supercharge it for the price of the 427 crate..
10-30-2010, 11:39 AM
#40
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Now that's thinking with the big head!! Strapping a blower on a suspect engine is like putting a match to your wallet. Same outcome: you're broke. If I had the coin I'd be doing big cubes as well. Good luck on the build, and post the story!