How Much Do I Need for the 10's
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 3
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
How Much Do I Need for the 10's
Hello
My current car is almost bone stock, other than the Vortech Ram Air. I want the car to be able to run low 11's to high 10's with ET Streets and mid 11's with Nitto DR's. How much HP will I need to run in this range. :crazy: What I need to know is what is the best way to get there without using NOS. Will heads/cam, gears, SC????
Please help me out I have been racing C4 for the past 5 years and I just now starting to learn about C5's and what works best with them.
Thanks :cool:
My current car is almost bone stock, other than the Vortech Ram Air. I want the car to be able to run low 11's to high 10's with ET Streets and mid 11's with Nitto DR's. How much HP will I need to run in this range. :crazy: What I need to know is what is the best way to get there without using NOS. Will heads/cam, gears, SC????
Please help me out I have been racing C4 for the past 5 years and I just now starting to learn about C5's and what works best with them.
Thanks :cool:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 0
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
Cartek x-package :) with 443 rwhp. (525 flywheel hp)
C5_pig has already run 11.19 @124.8 mph on drag radials with a milder version of the x-package making 500 flywheel hp.
Naturally aspirated engine with ls6 heads, ls6 intake, custom cam,custom tuning, 3.73's, ect.. NO nos...no stroker...no supercharger :)
[Modified by my00c5, 1:45 PM 4/5/2002]
C5_pig has already run 11.19 @124.8 mph on drag radials with a milder version of the x-package making 500 flywheel hp.
Naturally aspirated engine with ls6 heads, ls6 intake, custom cam,custom tuning, 3.73's, ect.. NO nos...no stroker...no supercharger :)
[Modified by my00c5, 1:45 PM 4/5/2002]
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,309
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From: Valley Ranch, Texas
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (my00c5)
Darren, I think you know the "local" answer to your question. Cartek, MTI, ARE,....all great shops, but you have a pretty good one in your backyard (as long as you don't take him a possessed yellow convertible :eek: ;) ). The only question is how much $$$ you want to spend. LG's 408/418 (??) puts over 500 to the ground, probably good for your goal, considering the G-5 package should be good for mid-low 11's on ET's, high 11's on DR's. :cheers:
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 1
From: paradise valley az. us
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
Call Nate at XTREME Motor Sports,we build many cars like your dreaming of at the best prices,warranties and workmanship.Give us a call at 480-517-4969.
Yours Truly David Smilovic.
Yours Truly David Smilovic.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Fl
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
I am a little sick of, every time someone asks a question regarding some kind of performance gain, instead of answering the question in terms of what mods
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
Race Director
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 10,753
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From: Dallas TX
Elite Member
Cruise-In I Veteran
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Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
High stall torque converter, 3.42's or 3.73's($$$) for drive train options. Don't forget the tranny wasn't designed to handle the power it will take to head/cam or s/c your ride to those numbers. It can be done, but, you are nearing a point where breakage can occur.
For guys that don't know, Darren is a VERY consistent driver of fast Vettes, WITH a clutch as well.:)
RG
[Modified by RG in Dallas, 3:51 PM 4/5/2002]
For guys that don't know, Darren is a VERY consistent driver of fast Vettes, WITH a clutch as well.:)
RG
[Modified by RG in Dallas, 3:51 PM 4/5/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 0
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (Skeeter1)
I am a little sick of, every time someone asks a question regarding some kind of performance gain, instead of answering the question in terms of what mods
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
as far as running low 11's to high 10's with ET Streets ..well the x package will allow you to run those times with drag radials!! And as his original title asked 'how much do I need for 10's" ...I said the x-package with HP figures. No cam specs required!! if the x package is just a power programmer or a head cam combo ..the same HP is still being made to runs those times!! :cheers: :cheers:
Former Vendor
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 5,607
Likes: 1
From: Houston TX
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's
Let's not compare time slip from one part of the country since we all know it is not 100% accurate. ET time varies due to several factors such as elevation, humidity, temperature, how well the track is prepped each time and so on, and on.....
So unless both timeslips are from the same track at the same day, they are not very accurate when doing comparisons.
:cheers:
So unless both timeslips are from the same track at the same day, they are not very accurate when doing comparisons.
:cheers:
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Fl
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (my00c5)
I am a little sick of, every time someone asks a question regarding some kind of performance gain, instead of answering the question in terms of what mods
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
skeeter I hope you arent reffering to me!! What I post is all true and I am just trying to steer this guy in the right direction. If you can find another tuner that has a head cam combo n/a non stroker that runs 11.19 @ 124.8 <soon to be in the high tens with few more tricks> like carteks does tell us so this guy has more options!! For the record cartek has now the fastest 408 stroker in the country <10.84 @ 128 > bettering the 422-427-433 motors. and the fastest heads cam car!! I sure think that cartek is doing something right!!
as far as running low 11's to high 10's with ET Streets ..well the x package will allow you to run those times with drag radials!! And as his original title asked 'how much do I need for 10's" ...I said the x-package with HP figures. No cam specs required!! if the x package is just a power programmer or a head cam combo ..the same HP is still being made to runs those times!! :cheers: :cheers:
i.e. heads and cam..what size valves...cam specs...ect..ect...people start with this :bs of this tuner or that tuner and call x, y or z...blablabla I think people are asking mostly for tech info, there is plenty of advertising already and people will make up their own gd mind about where to spend their $.MO :cheers:
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:38 PM 4/5/2002]
[Modified by Skeeter1, 4:40 PM 4/5/2002]
skeeter I hope you arent reffering to me!! What I post is all true and I am just trying to steer this guy in the right direction. If you can find another tuner that has a head cam combo n/a non stroker that runs 11.19 @ 124.8 <soon to be in the high tens with few more tricks> like carteks does tell us so this guy has more options!! For the record cartek has now the fastest 408 stroker in the country <10.84 @ 128 > bettering the 422-427-433 motors. and the fastest heads cam car!! I sure think that cartek is doing something right!!
as far as running low 11's to high 10's with ET Streets ..well the x package will allow you to run those times with drag radials!! And as his original title asked 'how much do I need for 10's" ...I said the x-package with HP figures. No cam specs required!! if the x package is just a power programmer or a head cam combo ..the same HP is still being made to runs those times!! :cheers: :cheers:
Yes, I am referring to you or whoever else posts about a specific tuner as the answer to someones tech question. there are a dozen tuners on the forum who are capable of doing the job...who is the best ? who has the fastest ? gimmie a break.
:cheers:
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 3
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (RG in Dallas)
Hello
Thanks for all of the info and RG thanks for the kind words. My last car (Yellow Beast) dynoed at 560 rwhp. I am not expecting anything like that with this one (Yellow Beast II). I had my hands full always working on my last car and am more interested in building a good reliable car that is very fun to drive and won't drive me nuts driving it to work. This is what I have gathered so far as to what I need.
MAF Upgrade -- ??
Ported Throttle Body -- ??
Stage II or III Port & Polished Z06 Heads (310+ flow)
Cam (aggressive but still legal)
LG Full Length Race Headers w/cats
Custom X-pipe
Borla Singer Exhaust System
Computer Tuning
Vigilante 3500 Torque Converter
3.90 Ring and Pinion Gears
B&M Transmission Cooler
Transco Shift Kit
I hoping to dyno around 420 with over 400 torque. Then next year add NOS.
:eek:
Thanks for all of the info and RG thanks for the kind words. My last car (Yellow Beast) dynoed at 560 rwhp. I am not expecting anything like that with this one (Yellow Beast II). I had my hands full always working on my last car and am more interested in building a good reliable car that is very fun to drive and won't drive me nuts driving it to work. This is what I have gathered so far as to what I need.
MAF Upgrade -- ??
Ported Throttle Body -- ??
Stage II or III Port & Polished Z06 Heads (310+ flow)
Cam (aggressive but still legal)
LG Full Length Race Headers w/cats
Custom X-pipe
Borla Singer Exhaust System
Computer Tuning
Vigilante 3500 Torque Converter
3.90 Ring and Pinion Gears
B&M Transmission Cooler
Transco Shift Kit
I hoping to dyno around 420 with over 400 torque. Then next year add NOS.
:eek:
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 26,794
Likes: 614
From: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
St. Jude Donor '06
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
Vicous:
Looks like your right on for low 11s high 10s with slicks or et streets with the mods you set forth in your most recent post.
Goodluck and hav fun,
Nitrovette
Looks like your right on for low 11s high 10s with slicks or et streets with the mods you set forth in your most recent post.
Goodluck and hav fun,
Nitrovette
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
I wouldn't monkey with the MAF and TB if you're staying with stock displacement. You'll thank yourself when it comes to tuning. I think you'll want to plan for a new transmission, not just the kit and cooler. Yours will probably last for a while being so new. Depending on how serious you want to get at the track (high 10/low 11 seems serious), you might look at the Yank PT4000, it really looks like the hot ticket right now. It might have even better street manners with a low gear like the 3.90. There's some good converter discussions at LS1Tech.com, e.g.:
http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...c;f=2;t=002116
I think John's G5 estimates are high and you can get where you want to be with that setup or similar in a converter/gear car. Can you talk a little more about what kind of street manners you require, i.e. what will drive you crazy?
http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...c;f=2;t=002116
I think John's G5 estimates are high and you can get where you want to be with that setup or similar in a converter/gear car. Can you talk a little more about what kind of street manners you require, i.e. what will drive you crazy?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (JWSchmidt3)
I think John's G5 estimates are high ....
I was factoring in Darren's "great" driving skills. ;) :D
I was factoring in Darren's "great" driving skills. ;) :D
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 11,309
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From: Valley Ranch, Texas
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (ToplessTexan)
I think John's G5 estimates are high ....
I was factoring in Darren's "great" driving skills. ;) :D
I think your ET estimates are high (i.e. pessimistic) with a setup like Darren is planning, not low. ;)
I was factoring in Darren's "great" driving skills. ;) :D
I think your ET estimates are high (i.e. pessimistic) with a setup like Darren is planning, not low. ;)
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 3
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (ToplessTexan)
Basically I don't want to have a car I have to work on all of the time. I did heads and cam in my 95 and loved it. The car drove perfect and the sound from the cam was awesome. I had to have more power so I went to a 383 with a blower. A blast to drive but I just didn't have time to work on it all of the time. I want a car that is very streetable that is easy to drive in traffic (even my wife could drive it) and is very competitive at the track. I want to be in the 11 sec class on Nitto's.
Thanks for the link, I am still trying to understand the auto, stuff it is way different than the 6-spd. How much HP can a stock trans hold????
[Modified by VICOUS, 2:13 PM 4/8/2002]
Thanks for the link, I am still trying to understand the auto, stuff it is way different than the 6-spd. How much HP can a stock trans hold????
[Modified by VICOUS, 2:13 PM 4/8/2002]
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 26,794
Likes: 614
From: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
St. Jude Donor '06
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
Once you get between 370 rwhp up to 400 rwhp its just a matter of time before the stock A4 tranny (which is weak link) will crap out, unless you drive it like a grandma. I speak from experience as i toasted my 3 and 4th gear just one hour after getting car back with heads and cam and 700 miles after sy 3500 and 3.42 gears. That was a bit disappointing to say the leaset :U But now, after install of FLP Level IV tranny 5000 miles later, i am all :D again.
Goodluck,
Nitrovette :smash:
Goodluck,
Nitrovette :smash:
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 1
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (VICOUS)
I think at ~400 RWTQ you should not expect it to last. I feel like I'm on borrowed time now with just the gears and converter. :rolleyes:
I don't think a low maintenance setup is an unrealistic expectation. The bigger converter and gear is they way to go for the track but your expectations of things like throttle precision, idle creep, cruising RPM, etc will impose some practical limits on how big you can go. So will the tire you want to run. In my book too little is just as bad as too much since you're disappointed either way.
[Modified by ToplessTexan, 3:36 PM 4/8/2002]
I don't think a low maintenance setup is an unrealistic expectation. The bigger converter and gear is they way to go for the track but your expectations of things like throttle precision, idle creep, cruising RPM, etc will impose some practical limits on how big you can go. So will the tire you want to run. In my book too little is just as bad as too much since you're disappointed either way.
[Modified by ToplessTexan, 3:36 PM 4/8/2002]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 3
From: Murphy TX
Cruise-In II Veteran
Re: How Much Do I Need for the 10's (ToplessTexan)
ToplessTexan I would like to ride in your car some time to get a feel for what a big converter feels like. Just let me know I live about 2 miles from LG's shop. Does anyone know of a shop in Dallas that can rebuild these tranies to hold 500+ hp ( I do plan on going to NOS someday)