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COR Wheel Failure, Owners Beware

 
Old 10-29-2012, 03:03 PM
  #61  
lionelhutz
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
There you go - all the effing speculation is out the window.
What speculation? All your ranting just keeps ignoring what I had originally asked.

Where is CCW's written warranty?

Seriously, why is this concept of a written warranty which explains the warranty terms and conditions so hard to grasp?

If a warranty is not written down in some hard copy manner that a customer can hold in their hands, then it's open to whatever interpretation the company feels like applying when you contact them about an issue. Why can't you understand this instead of ranting on and on about calling some company to get their verbal input?

How about we use a completely different example? Would you buy a new car that only came with a verbal warranty from the sales man? Better yet, would you buy a user car from some curbsider and expect him to honour a verbal warranty?

Also, you must be able to print out or somehow hold your own hard copy of this warranty. Look at this failed wheel example. The COR wheel owner has screen shots showing how the warranty policy was changed due to this defect. The new on-line warranty whould apply without proof of the warranty as it applied to the wheels when they were purchased.

Want to talk about the HRE warranty? I can find clear examples in HRE literature which simply state their wheels have a 2 year finish warranty and a lifetime structural warranty. There are no limitations or exceptions given on these statements. In other words, if my HRE wheel failed like in the thread I linked and I also had their fancy gloss brochure for my wheel with that lifetime structural warranty statement then I would most likely win a lawsuit in court over the wheel cracking, regardless of me refinishing it myself or not.

So, do you believe the verbal warranty you apparently just got from COR during your phone call or do you believe their official written warranty policy? Which one do you think will stand up in court?
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:20 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
What speculation? All your ranting just keeps ignoring what I had originally asked.

Where is CCW's written warranty?

Seriously, why is this concept of a written warranty which explains the warranty terms and conditions so hard to grasp?

If a warranty is not written down in some hard copy manner that a customer can hold in their hands, then it's open to whatever interpretation the company feels like applying when you contact them about an issue. Why can't you understand this instead of ranting on and on about calling some company to get their verbal input?

How about we use a completely different example? Would you buy a new car that only came with a verbal warranty from the sales man? Better yet, would you buy a user car from some curbsider and expect him to honour a verbal warranty?

Also, you must be able to print out or somehow hold your own hard copy of this warranty. Look at this failed wheel example. The COR wheel owner has screen shots showing how the warranty policy was changed due to this defect. The new on-line warranty whould apply without proof of the warranty as it applied to the wheels when they were purchased.

Want to talk about the HRE warranty? I can find clear examples in HRE literature which simply state their wheels have a 2 year finish warranty and a lifetime structural warranty. There are no limitations or exceptions given on these statements. In other words, if my HRE wheel failed like in the thread I linked and I also had their fancy gloss brochure for my wheel with that lifetime structural warranty statement then I would most likely win a lawsuit in court over the wheel cracking, regardless of me refinishing it myself or not.

So, do you believe the verbal warranty you apparently just got from COR during your phone call or do you believe their official written warranty policy? Which one do you think will stand up in court?
Have you bothered to pick up the telephone and speak to the vendors?

The bottom line is simple. They either stand behind their product or they don't.

And WhoTF are you defending? - first you are all over COR then you are all over the wheel owner?

You are nothing but a whining troll that has contributed nothing except speculation and tripe.

You haveen't even got the ***** to call the vendors and speak to them. If you are so hot to bloody trot about the 'written warranty' then call them and get a copy yourself.

Hell I doubt you even have a drivers license let alone a car.


I am done with your idiotic spew.

Last edited by RC45; 10-29-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #63  
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Just a few observations.

Both RC45 (yes) and Natie(no) disagree that the heat involved with powder coating can affect the metallurgical properties of a wheel. The owner admits to painting, i.e., refinishing, his wheels a week prior to his “track day,” and RC45 has allegedly confirmed that COR was within their right to refuse the warranty on that basis alone, as are CCW and HRE. The owner does not specify if the painting was powder coating or not, but that makes no difference as to warranty because painting, like powder coating, is “refinishing.”

While I did not limit my comments about mounting of wheels to that done by a machine, Cybermind says that improper mounting of a wheel cannot induce stress to a wheel that might cause a failure on use. He forgets the reason that manufacturers specifically provide torque specs for mounting wheels is to reduce stress, particularly on the center hub (unless he wants to clarify).

Much has been said about warranty for track use, but RC45 specifically limited his question to wheels provided for “strict track use” rather than their entire line of wheels. So that question is not particularly germane to the question at hand, which is do those manufacturer’s warranty all of their wheels for track use?

Steven believes that COR should issue a recall on those wheels.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...r-service.html

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...l-failure.html

Steven, should these manufacturers, as well as some other manufacturers products involved in non-impact single wheel incidents that occurred during track use, recall all of their wheels too? Or do we just trash tham as well?

Bottom line: The owner voided his warranty by painting his wheels and acted hastily in employing a lawyer instead of approaching the problem in a different manner. In COR's response to his initial claim COR was apprently in their right to implicate painting as a cause of the claim denial, and RC45 has affirmed this right. While COR could have handled the matter in a more diplomatic manner the owner's employing a lawyer led to the escalation of a process that both could have handled better sans lawyers.


Last edited by FRITZM; 10-29-2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: ADDING
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:04 PM
  #64  
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I view this as with any part that has a "Life Time Warranty" or warranty of any amount.

I had a roller rocker fail on my 3.5 years ago. It trashed a pushrod, valve cover, and damaged my Trick Flow head. I contacted the company and they warrantied the rocker at no charge, however all of the other damages were not covered. Says they wont cover it in thier warranty. Done Deal.

Without reading the old warranty statement and reading the new statement from COR, they may or may not have that already. If so, then the owner should have taken the refund. I would have.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:08 PM
  #65  
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Nah! That would be too sensible.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:55 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Have you bothered to pick up the telephone and speak to the vendors?
The question was simple. Can you provide the link to the written warranty?

Apparently you needed to make a point so you called all the vendors. So, where is their written warranty. I noticed you didn't post anything about that. Wonder why?

Forget it, you've clearly proven with the personal attacks that you're not worth bothing with anymore. Well, that and the fact you seem incapable of understanding a few simple paragraphs.

Actually, I'm just guessing that you didn't call anyone and you're just posting make up BS.

Last edited by lionelhutz; 10-29-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by sabastian458 View Post
I view this as with any part that has a "Life Time Warranty" or warranty of any amount.

I had a roller rocker fail on my 3.5 years ago. It trashed a pushrod, valve cover, and damaged my Trick Flow head. I contacted the company and they warrantied the rocker at no charge, however all of the other damages were not covered. Says they wont cover it in thier warranty. Done Deal.

Without reading the old warranty statement and reading the new statement from COR, they may or may not have that already. If so, then the owner should have taken the refund. I would have.
What did the warranty say for your rockers? I would bet it was the standard parts replacement only coverage type verbage.

COR wrote that they offered to refund the price for the wheels. That wasn't acceptable to the car owner. There's not much else they can do except pay for any costs involved every time a car with their wheels crashes. If you don't think that can happen then you're dreaming.

Last edited by lionelhutz; 10-29-2012 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:33 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
The question was simple. Can you provide the link to the written warranty?

Apparently you needed to make a point so you called all the vendors. So, where is their written warranty. I noticed you didn't post anything about that. Wonder why?

Forget it, you've clearly proven with the personal attacks that you're not worth bothing with anymore. Well, that and the fact you seem incapable of understanding a few simple paragraphs.

Actually, I'm just guessing that you didn't call anyone and you're just posting make up BS.
And you would have guessed incorrectly.

Keep on digging that hole.

The man to ask for over at HRE is Lon, at CCW ask for John and just call TireRack for your BBS questions. I will post an extract from the follow up email I am gettign from Tirerack regadring the BBS wheels.

You should call COR and be sure they send you a commision cheque the way your carrying their water here.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:43 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by C5Natie View Post
If its a design flaw then yes but that has to be determined first. Could be in the design, material or just one batch. Hard to tell until a lot of testing is done. Testing that shouldve been done before the wheels were sold.
I initially posted a comment or two, then dropped out of the discussion. However, although I'm no structural engineer, I'll stick my neck out and simply say that the spokes of that particular COR wheel look pretty frail, for a wheel that's going to be used on a racetrack....
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:12 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Have you bothered to pick up the telephone and speak to the vendors?

The bottom line is simple. They either stand behind their product or they don't.
To enforce a warranty claim against a company, you need to have it in writing. A verbal promise (of a warranty) means nothing - in a court room. It degenerates into a "he said, she said" argument.

Just calling a company about their warranty is a waste. Many times the person you are talking with simply does not understand product liability law. Anything they said is not enforceable. If you get it in writing, it is.
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:42 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by pjensen View Post
To enforce a warranty claim against a company, you need to have it in writing. A verbal promise (of a warranty) means nothing - in a court room. It degenerates into a "he said, she said" argument.

Just calling a company about their warranty is a waste. Many times the person you are talking with simply does not understand product liability law. Anything they said is not enforceable. If you get it in writing, it is.
Do you own a car?

Do you track your car?

Do you own track performance wheels?

In short, do you have ANY life experience close to the events being discussed or are you just another know-nothing Internet-jockey keyboard warrior?

Do you have peers that race and track their cars using brands of wheels that collectively have millions of laps under the belt around the world?

If the bloody effing warranty concerns YOU that much call the damn companies involved and get them to MAIL you their written warranties.

FFS man, people spout and interject opinions 10 to the dozen and actually contribute nothing in the end.

If you want ti play, then you have to play.

If your wheel fails, you call the company and you are will get the failed wheel replaced under their structural warranty if you have not screwed with the wheel. No different to any other automotive component.

They will not and have no obligation to pay for the collateral damage caused by a wheel failure. YOU pick up the tab for the rest of the damage.

I guess you are one of those clowns that will try demand Hoosier replace a tire after it is worn out after a mornings track session.

Last edited by RC45; 10-29-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
Do you own a car?

Do you track your car?

{angry stuff snipped}
Yes I own my car. No I don't track it. No I don't own performance wheels. I use this forum to fix problems on my car (and I have fixed a lot). Great forum by the way.

Just curious - have you ever been in court? Do you understand how the legal system works? Have you ever been sued? Do you own a business?
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:50 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by pjensen View Post
Just curious - have you ever been in court? Do you understand how the legal system works? Have you ever been sued? Do you own a business?
Oh, some relevent questions. You can add these. Ever been sued? Even been at a company that was named in a lawsuit where you had to be a witness? Ever been on the receiving end of a lawsuit in any way?

Nothing about a verbal warranty or tracking your car or owning wheels or having contacts involved in racing has anything to do with the written warranty or what happens when a company gets sued. In fact, the people handling the case, ie the lawyers, might not have any inside knowledge at all about the aftermarket wheel industry. That will in no way hinder them in settling the issue.

I'd be quite willing to hazard a likely guess. COR or rather their insurance company will end up giving the car owner money and it will be more money that the just replacement cost of the wheels. That's typically what happens when a company gets sued. It's cheaper to just pay out. It's also one of the reasons insurance premiums are so bloody high.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:06 AM
  #74  
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These are my wheels, Pentia wheels by Intro Custom Wheels. May be hard to see but the spokes have a lot of meat on them. The wheels are very strong yet light. Theyre billet aluminum and I powdercoated them black. They told me that powdercoating would not void the warranty but I did notice that very recently they added quite a bit to their warranty info page including that racing voids the warranty. Related to the COR incident? Hmm, wont stop me from racing with them plus its been over a year anyway.

This warranty is not applicable to INTRO WHEELS product if:
A. Corrosion or damage occurred due to improper maintenance.
B. Damage or structural failure occurs as a result of an accident or road conditions.
C. Damage or structural failure occurs as a result of racing applications.
http://www.introwheels.com/ltd-warranty/
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:12 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by pjensen View Post
Yes I own my car. No I don't track it. No I don't own performance wheels. I use this forum to fix problems on my car (and I have fixed a lot). Great forum by the way.

Just curious - have you ever been in court? Do you understand how the legal system works? Have you ever been sued? Do you own a business?
Ah, so you are a know-nothing Internet keyboard jockey.

The very point of my refering to your not owning, using or knowing others that own or use wheels on track was to expose you to the reality that when wheels are trusted and prolific within a community - ie the racing community, then they manufacturers understand world of mouth and after sales service makes and destroys companies.

So let me type this slowly so you can understand:

The reason HRE, BBS and CCW step up and honor lifetime structural warranties is because they sell many thousands of wheels into the racing communities around the world and the very few wheels they do need to replace are a tiny fraction of the cost of facing some stupid litigious customer.

When the odd wheel fails, CCW or HRE will replace the barrel (of a 3 piece) of the entire forged rim at an internal cost of maybe $1500 - 3 hours of their attorneys time.

If COR offered such a replacement and this Mustang owner declined he is a moron, he will not see any of the other money he is claiming as he will need to PROVE at great expense that the COR wheels where purposefully sold with a known defect - this is going to cost him far more than the cost of a whored out track Mustang.

So, back to the 'written warranty' you keep busting a nut over.

It is in the BEST interest of the real quality long term wheel companies to stand behind their products, and they do - that is why they sell so many wheels and have been around for many decades, reputation, reputation, reputation.

If they chose to NOT stand behind their product word would spread that their product is inferior and they do not stand behind their product - this would in turn kill their business.

As to your silly opening gambit - yes I have been in court, yes I have been sued bbut have avoided the worst because the few times things got sticky I arbitrated/negotiated the way through, I very much understand the legal system and own a business.

The same common sense that keeps the reputation of HRE, CCW and BBS almost spotless - namely they stand behind their product where applicable and defend their legal stance when appropriate is what I am applying here.

You on the other hand are trying to be Corvette Forum Perry Mason and are losing your case.

Last edited by RC45; 10-30-2012 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:53 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by FRITZM View Post
Just a few observations.

While I did not limit my comments about mounting of wheels to that done by a machine, Cybermind says that improper mounting of a wheel cannot induce stress to a wheel that might cause a failure on use. He forgets the reason that manufacturers specifically provide torque specs for mounting wheels is to reduce stress, particularly on the center hub (unless he wants to clarify).
I was referring to machine mounting (tire onto wheel). I agree, the improper torqueing of the wheel nuts when mounting it to the hub can induce stress to the wheel however, it would not fail in the manner seen in the picture.
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:22 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
If COR offered such a replacement and this Mustang owner declined he is a moron, he will not see any of the other money he is claiming as he will need to PROVE at great expense that the COR wheels where purposefully sold with a known defect - this is going to cost him far more than the cost of a whored out track Mustang.
I bet he will. They'll settle for something between what the wheels cost and the total claim. The owner then might have to delete all the posts and pics he put about about the issue and never write about it again.

Originally Posted by RC45 View Post
So, back to the 'written warranty' you keep busting a nut over.
The written warranty and it's included terms and conditions is how the company defends itself in the event of a lawsuit when the owner of a failed wheel decides a new wheel isn't good enough.

The written warranty policy is something your liability carrier will insist you have, especially after you hand a lawsuit over to them.

The written warranty policy will be something written by a lawyer who likely has no inside knowledge of the racing community.

The fact that the company will rquire this written warranty policy can be completely independant of what the company may "unofficially" attempt to do in the case of failures.

I still find it hilarious that I was questioning the formal written policy and then you make a big ranting post about how you had called all your favorite wheel companies but there was zero mention of the written policy. Find out something you didn't like?

I also think it's funny how you ignore certain things being posted, like the other post where it was questioned which wheels were ecommended as suitable for track use or was it every wheel made by each of the companies you called.

Last edited by lionelhutz; 10-30-2012 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:15 AM
  #78  
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At the end of the day what would it have cost them to replace it and the result would be how great COR is which is true and cheap advertisement.
I was always under the impression that a aftermarket wheel is stronger then OEM and look GM is installing R compound Sport Cups on vettes knowing that it puts incredible forces on the wheel and bearings which are the same wheels they use as the tire option.
I find this enbarrasing and in poor taste for a aftermarket wheel company to basically say drive on our wheels to shows and events but race on your OEM wheels.
I would love for John at CCW to chime in on this.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:43 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Dave concrete View Post
At the end of the day what would it have cost them to replace it and the result would be how great COR is which is true and cheap advertisement.
So, they should cover all costs due to the wheel failure? Things like fixing the body damage, replacing the damaged brake setup on that wheel, vehicle transportation costs and replacment vehicle rental.

Next, you'll want a tire company to replace your car because the tires lost traction and as a result your car hit the wall.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:24 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
I bet he will. They'll settle for something between what the wheels cost and the total claim. The owner then might have to delete all the posts and pics he put about about the issue and never write about it again.



The written warranty and it's included terms and conditions is how the company defends itself in the event of a lawsuit when the owner of a failed wheel decides a new wheel isn't good enough.

The written warranty policy is something your liability carrier will insist you have, especially after you hand a lawsuit over to them.

The written warranty policy will be something written by a lawyer who likely has no inside knowledge of the racing community.

The fact that the company will rquire this written warranty policy can be completely independant of what the company may "unofficially" attempt to do in the case of failures.

I still find it hilarious that I was questioning the formal written policy and then you make a big ranting post about how you had called all your favorite wheel companies but there was zero mention of the written policy. Find out something you didn't like?

I also think it's funny how you ignore certain things being posted, like the other post where it was questioned which wheels were ecommended as suitable for track use or was it every wheel made by each of the companies you called.
Have YOU called and asked the companies to provide YOU their written warranty yet?

If not, STHU about the written warranty aleady.

FFS man, you dont even own a bloody set of wheels, yet you are in here spewing like Judge Judy presiding over an OJ retrial.

Last edited by RC45; 10-30-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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