will cam install make much HP without ported heads ?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 894
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From: Bethel Township Ohio
will cam install make much HP without ported heads ?
I am not really ready to do a heads and cam package now but I have a bad oil leak on the front of the motor. So I was thinking I might as well do a cam while I had everything torn down. would it be worth it with just my other mods? (in sig)
Thanks, Dale
Thanks, Dale
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Fredericksburg VA
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
Dale,
The factory has to meet several design goals for the engine that you might not share as your own. As a result, there is usually some power potential left untapped from the cylinder heads in unported or minimally pocket ported form. You should flow the heads and have your cam grinder pick a cam to get the power out of the heads. A new cam might require a rear gear change if the torque band shifts up in RPM. This is a good thing.
The factory has to meet several design goals for the engine that you might not share as your own. As a result, there is usually some power potential left untapped from the cylinder heads in unported or minimally pocket ported form. You should flow the heads and have your cam grinder pick a cam to get the power out of the heads. A new cam might require a rear gear change if the torque band shifts up in RPM. This is a good thing.
Platinum Supporting Vendor
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: VENTURA Ca
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
A cam without heads will make more difference than heads without a cam. I've heard of guys making 370 RWHP without heads. If you have to pull the timing cover anyway , I'd definately stuff a cam in there!
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Boulder, Colorado
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
There are a few guys on this forum who have made over 370rwhp with an aftermarket cam and stock heads in a M6.
Also check out http://www.ls1tech.com . A few M6 cars have approached (or exceeded) 400rwhp with a cam. That is with long tube headers, 2001+ intake manifold, underdrive pulley and most other bolt ons.
There is a post a few days old of a f-body getting 395 rwhp with the MTI C2 cam, even with 4.10's and a steel driveshaft. http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...c;f=1;t=005556
Also check out http://www.ls1tech.com . A few M6 cars have approached (or exceeded) 400rwhp with a cam. That is with long tube headers, 2001+ intake manifold, underdrive pulley and most other bolt ons.
There is a post a few days old of a f-body getting 395 rwhp with the MTI C2 cam, even with 4.10's and a steel driveshaft. http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...c;f=1;t=005556
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Dallas & Chicago TX & IL
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (Miles in Michigan)
Do it....I made 372hp and 362tq with a cam change on my 99FRC. :D
[Modified by Myhardtop, 11:26 AM 6/12/2002]
[Modified by Myhardtop, 11:26 AM 6/12/2002]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 894
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From: Bethel Township Ohio
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (Bill Benavitz)
Thanks guys I am really thinking about it.
what would be a good cam? I all ready have good pushrods would I need valve springs ? how about computer work?
what would be a good cam? I all ready have good pushrods would I need valve springs ? how about computer work?
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Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (HeaderDesign.com)
Dale,
You should flow the heads and have your cam grinder pick a cam to get the power out of the heads. A new cam might require a rear gear change if the torque band shifts up in RPM. This is a good thing.
You should flow the heads and have your cam grinder pick a cam to get the power out of the heads. A new cam might require a rear gear change if the torque band shifts up in RPM. This is a good thing.
Dale,
Go for it! You've got the right mods (headers, Halltech) and w/ the M6 you've got more flexability. You can get lots of good advice here on which cam to install. You should start another thread on that if you don't get an answer here. I'll bet you could benefit from LS1 edit afterwords if you want to donate more $$ to the cause.
:cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,126
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From: Dallas, TX
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (Andy@AandACorvette)
A cam without heads will make more difference than heads without a cam. I've heard of guys making 370 RWHP without heads. If you have to pull the timing cover anyway , I'd definately stuff a cam in there!
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,161
Likes: 17
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
Very simple.....if you want to pass emissions do a 220/220 114 cam, if not get a 224/224 112 cam.Get some TPIS long tubes, comp 918 springs, and hardened pushrods......I got 380 rwhp with STOCK HEADS and STOCK PROGRAMMING..........
[Modified by OliverM5, 10:29 AM 6/12/2002]
[Modified by OliverM5, 10:29 AM 6/12/2002]
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 894
Likes: 1
From: Bethel Township Ohio
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (need-for-speed)
[Quote/] no offense dude but If I went to the trouble to pull the heads, I damn sure would put some ported/polished ones back on :) :cheers:
Dale,
Go for it! You've got the right mods (headers, Halltech) and w/ the M6 you've got more flexability. You can get lots of good advice here on which cam to install. You should start another thread on that if you don't get an answer here. I'll bet you could benefit from LS1 edit afterwords if you want to donate more $$ to the cause.
:cheers: [/QUOTE]
I agree that is the choice I am trying to make now. My car has 41000 miles on it now 90% race miles (roadcouse and autox not drag strip). The motor still seems strong but I am trying to decide if I should ignore the leak for now and go with a K Tech all bore motor at the end of the season or do the cam and see how long the rest of the motor holds up. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on a tired short block.
[Modified by DALE C, 12:43 PM 6/12/2002]
Dale,
Go for it! You've got the right mods (headers, Halltech) and w/ the M6 you've got more flexability. You can get lots of good advice here on which cam to install. You should start another thread on that if you don't get an answer here. I'll bet you could benefit from LS1 edit afterwords if you want to donate more $$ to the cause.
:cheers: [/QUOTE]
I agree that is the choice I am trying to make now. My car has 41000 miles on it now 90% race miles (roadcouse and autox not drag strip). The motor still seems strong but I am trying to decide if I should ignore the leak for now and go with a K Tech all bore motor at the end of the season or do the cam and see how long the rest of the motor holds up. I just don't want to spend a lot of money on a tired short block.
[Modified by DALE C, 12:43 PM 6/12/2002]
Safety Car
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From: Renaissance Festival TAZ the Wolfdog (R.I.P.)
Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
On my car it was worth 26 HP w/o heads or exhaust and boy could my SOP feel it. Whereas the stock cam lays down (loses power) around 5200 rpm, the MTI BI cam keeps making HP up to 6500 rpm. Peak Hp in stock form was 294@5100rpm (and dropping quickly), the B1 cam was 327@6500rpm and 320@6800rpm (rev limited). This is no :bs , I have the graph to prove it.
Call MTI for the B1 cam (not a heavy, erratic lope) if you like these numbers.
Call MTI for the B1 cam (not a heavy, erratic lope) if you like these numbers.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
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Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (DALE C)
The only internal modification I chose to do is the cam/springs/pushrods for now. I would have done the heads but I wanted to concentrate on the driveline. It's no fun burning a clutch or busting something due to stock parts. Alot of folk's think I'm :crazy: when I tell them I am hoping 390+RWHP with tuning. We will see! :cheers: But then again I am going with a new cam grind thats probably not for everyone.. It's a little NASTY.. :reddevil
The car will be completed by Friday and dyno'ed.. This will be done without tuning and then monday I will have it tuned and re-dyno'ed/. Stay tuned!
The car will be completed by Friday and dyno'ed.. This will be done without tuning and then monday I will have it tuned and re-dyno'ed/. Stay tuned!
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Re: will cam install make much HP without ported heads ? (J99FRC)
My car with cam only would pull slightly the ZO6's on the track events on the straight so I know it made decent power. ProFlow, headers, cam. My car had 40+ when the cam was installed. Do a leak down test then decide. Do it :D
