:D :D damn damn damn I still do that even when I run the damn program because they are right next to each and 50-60% of the time I do that haahahhah I cannot tell you how many runs I had to erase b/c of that ...me bad :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
ahha I get one front O2 and one rear O2 ahahahah :crazy:

 

WOW!
I wish I read this before I did my late night test & tunes. :D

First of all I borrowed a friends bottle to see if it was the bottle,
and it might be since the surging wasn't really their.
There was some surging in the beginning of the run,
but once it was at 100% I didn't feel any surging.
I was only able to get 91oct pump gas,
so maybe that's why it surged in the beginning??
Also, on my bottle, I experience more surging when it's hot,
then late at night when it's cold, and tonight it was nice and cool outside.

Anyhow, here is what it came to...
We did about 6 runs total, at high speed.
2 on the 100shot, and 4 on the 150shot.

On the 100shot...
It read 850-875

On the 150shot...
It read 900-975

I also wonder about something else...
I have a remote bottle opener,
and the bottle I used tonight does not have one.
Do you think it's possible that the remote bottle opener is not opening the bottle all the way?
On the 100shot no problems,
but on the 150shot is where the problems begin.
Is it possible that the remote bottle opener would cause this problem,
or not the case since it would also do the surging on the 100shot as well.

Thanks everyone for all your help!
AlFromSD :flag


[Modified by alfromsd, 12:16 AM 7/2/2002]

 

I also wanted to give you a link to the plugs I use.
From what I understand, they are the best ones out their,
at least that's what I was told.

http://www.densoiridium.com/default....ash=1&toggle=1

They are the Denso Iridium Power Ultra-Fine 0.4mm

AlFromSD :flag


[Modified by alfromsd, 12:26 AM 7/2/2002]


[Modified by alfromsd, 10:13 PM 7/2/2002]

 

slim chance your remote opener is not opening enuf to cause this problem because it would have to be only open about 1/8 turn past totally closed to be any more restrictive than the nitrous jet itself. after a 1/2 turn (either by hand or opener) the valve is open enuf to function. No surging with the other bottle? did you put your bottle back in right after and try again? You're doing some good troubleshooting. you'll figure it out. So, you doing shakedown runs in middle of the nite?!?! sounds like me!! I'm always tearing up the country roads here in oregon in middle of the night. best time to gather traces, tune with cooler weather,, etc.

the numbers you mention in the post above here, are those bottle pressures? 800-900psi is weak!! Also noteworthy, when the bottle gets low to the point where the siphon tube is in and out of actual liquid N2O, you will get surging for sure. how is your bottle arranged in its holder during operation? optimum = bottle at 30-45 degree angle, valve pointed toward front of car, bottom towards rear bottle sticker facing up (bottle line nut facing down). just like in my bottles in sig pic. if you have your bottle arranged any other way, you will compromise proper siphoning. i am probably preaching to the choir here.


[Modified by rwj383, 4:53 AM 7/2/2002]

 

oh yah, one thing you might try once you duplicate your symptoms again: set your maximizer up so that it comes on super fast (<1 sec ramp, 0-100%). Yes, you'll have to sacrifice some traction here in the name of troubleshooting. I am curious to see if the symptoms remain.

 

No surging with the other bottle? did you put your bottle back in right after and try again?
No I didn't because I was out of juice.

You're doing some good troubleshooting. you'll figure it out. So, you doing shakedown runs in middle of the nite?!?! sounds like me!! I'm always tearing up the country roads here in oregon in middle of the night. best time to gather traces, tune with cooler weather,, etc.
Yeah, there is a local highway where there are no exits or on-ramps for 4 miles.

the numbers you mention in the post above here, are those bottle pressures? 800-900psi is weak!!
No those were the ATAP readings for fuel.
Bottle pressure was as 1050, since I have a warmer & relay.

Also noteworthy, when the bottle gets low to the point where the siphon tube is in and out of actual liquid N2O, you will get surging for sure.
Surging has happen even on a just filled bottle.


Is your bottle arranged in its holder during operation? optimum = bottle at 30-45 degree angle, valve pointed toward front of car, bottom towards rear bottle sticker facing up (bottle line nut facing down). just like in my bottles in sig pic. if you have your bottle arranged any other way, you will compromise proper siphoning. i am probably preaching to the choir here.

Bottle is mounted just as you describe.

AlFromSD


[Modified by alfromsd, 11:31 AM 7/2/2002]

 

oh yah, one thing you might try once you duplicate your symptoms again: set your maximizer up so that it comes on super fast (<1 sec ramp, 0-100%). Yes, you'll have to sacrifice some traction here in the name of troubleshooting. I am curious to see if the symptoms remain.
Actually, I usually don't have the build time more then 1 sec,
and start it at 30to50%, just depends if it's a freeway run,
or a track run from stop.
The most build time I have used is probably around 1.5sec.
The run last night was on a .6sec build, and tires hooked,
but I started it at about 60mph.

AlFromSD :flag

 

hmm based on your atap infor you are a touch lean on the 100 shot a rich to rich rich on the 150, but not as piggy rich as I thought you may be on the 150.
It seems as though it would be your controller and the noids pulsing that are giving you the surging. I cannot think of anything else at the moment that would give you that type of feel.
If the lines are clear and the nozzles ok, things look just fine. Maybe the noids aren't pulsing at the rate they should?hmmmm :confused: :D :cheers:

 

Al:
Did you figure out why you were malfunctioning?



Bruce







[Modified by bruce1, 8:28 PM 7/2/2002]

 

900-975mv is a broad fluctuation in O2 readings on the 150's. If you are getting fluctuations in O2 WOT readings like this, that means your nitrous is turning on and off (hence, your fluctauations). you are much more stable on the 100's being at 850-875mv (too lean btw). so, you have a nitrous delivery problem somewhere. noids? nitrous filter clogged? maximizer being weird? bottle? ????? Oh yah, check your 150hp nitrous and fuel jets to see if there is any funk clogging them up. I have unclogged a jet or 2 myself (tiny piece of inner nylon tubbing from the lines stuck in the jets).

 

What came first, the chicken or the egg.
That's how I feel right now.

I am going to buy another bottle.
Bruce1 had the same problem, till he changed his bottle,
and then it went away he said.
I did not feel the surging last night on my friends bottle,
but there has been times where I didn't feel it on mine either.
It's kinda of a hit or miss on the 150.

Do you guys think changing my fuel jets from 22s to 20s for the 150 would be a great risk?

Also, I looked at the jets a few times, and they look to be clean.
Even blew in them just in case.

The 900 to 975 on the 150shot, were different runs.
It didn't really fluctuate on each run though once it was at full power.
I presume the bottle pressure was dropping between runs,
thus causing the change in fuel.
The first run on the 150 was at 975, and it went down a little each time,
also maybe because the bottle was starting to get empty.

I also wonder about something else...
When I fill up my bottle, I get it topped off.
After about 5 or 6 fills, I have them open and empty it to get rid of the air.
Do you think it is possible that air is getting in the bottle since I just get it topped, thus making is surge??

AlFromSD :flag


[Modified by alfromsd, 10:26 PM 7/2/2002]


[Modified by alfromsd, 12:06 AM 7/3/2002]

 

as long as the dip tube in the bottle is submerged in aqueous N2O, it doesnt matter what the gaseous atmosphere is above it in the bottle. That would only matter after the aqueos runs out and you start running on fumes. Yes, definitely purge the bottle dry every few bottles. I do it whenever i think of it, at least every 5 fills.
as far as leaning out your fuel jets on the 150 shot....wait until you have your surging problem fixed. you need to know what you're O2's are at before you tune the nitrous. i wouldnt lean out unless you find you are at 980mv. I know a lot of us nitrous users stay fat on the bigger shots, 920-950mv, for safety. some tuners i talk to say running 11:1 - 10:1 with big nitrous is a must.

 

You don't think running rich would cause surging?
Filling the cylinder wall with extra gas?
What about ignition, do you think it's a must to change?

AlFromSD :flag

 

you are not THAT rich. you'd have to be rich enough to dam near stall the motor. 975mv wont do that. I know of many tuners that purposely tune their high-boost turbo'd or high- nitroused cars to this rich or richer. i have never really heard of 'gas surging' such as your symptoms either (only with 150shot but ok other times). too rich will kill power to the point of stalling the motor, but surging??? perhaps in some extreme case. an extreme case that would not be remedied by going from .022 to .020 fuel jets. If your O2's were pegged at 1 volt, i would be researching a richness issue. to really put the 'too rich' thing to bed, check a plug right after one of these surging occurances. If it is dark and/or wet, then maybe an issue. I would not toy with fuel until you have consistent O2 traces on the 150shot. also some food for thought: i have found that our O2's in our vettes arent so reliable as we'd like to think. every time i get on a dyno with the wideband, i find that the desired 12.5:1 afr on the wideband = ~940mv on my O2's. If this is the case for all of us, then imagine trying to tune for some lower afr of 11:1 (some tuners going this rich on high boost or high nitrous) with just using your laptop and car's O2's. you couldnt. you could still try the .020 jets since it is an easy swap. i'd be surprised if this remedied your symptoms. good luck!



[Modified by rwj383, 9:09 AM 7/3/2002]

 

Yahoo!!
I figured out the problem!!

Went with new ignition wires, and the surging is gone.

I guess the stock wires can't keep a good spark at the 150shot,
but was able to at the 100shot, thus surging.

Went to the track today,
and was kicked out after my second 11sec run @121, on street tires.
Actually I was happy today to get the boot. :)

Funny how it all makes sence after you figure it out.

Thanks everyone for all your help!

AlFromSD :flag