Hey all,

Had a local shop do my clutch work about two weeks ago now. In the process, instead of removing the lines like they ought to, they accidentally cut both hardlines going to the rear brakes.

They installed flare junctions which do operate the brakes currently without leaks.

I still don't consider flare junctions safe - both for the potential for the lines to crack and for the nuts to back out over time and vibration.

Since the car has had stall problems since the shop worked on it, I finally had time today to get it up on a jack and take a look.

Those flared brake lines don't hug the body like the factory pieces do. In fact, they rest directly on top of the driver front O2 sensor. In this spot they will eventually rub/cut the O2 wires against the top of the O2 sensor itself.

Wondering if anyone here would potentially change my perspective on flared brake hardlines. Should I not feel concerned for my safety driving the car? It has literally only seen three trips and two tows since the clutch work, but even if I figure out the stalling problem and get it roadworthy again (it is my daily driver, and I am indebted to borrowing a car for two weeks now) I don't know that I could feel safe with it. And that topic aside, the lines are anywhere but where they are supposed to be down there at the front of the tunnel now.

I'm open to the voices of experience on this one.

 

With the pile of issue you've had since that clutch install sounds like the shop you were at DESTROYED your car.

Serioulsy.... who the hell cuts hard lines??

 

I think my old Porsche 944 had some flared brake fittings from the factory, so if done properly, I'd say it's safe. Given the shop cut the lines in the first place... I wouldn't put my money on them to do anything properly.

But really, you ought to talk to the supervisor or owner and demand a new line.

 

T sensor broken
Spark plug snapped
2x brake hard lines cut
multiple lines not reinstalled to their plastic snap-top holders (the pieces which hold lines in place and not swinging freely)
O2 line melted


I'm not a 20-something hot rodder anymore. I don't want to spend time working on my car, much less crawling under and into it trying to give a more delicate look at issues than a somewhat slapdash shop has. I feel I paid for an agreed job, they did the job but damaged the car and left it as-yet not normally drivable. I'm a really patient guy, and I know stuff happens when spinning wrenches, but I'm not happy with the current state of the car. Never a single hitch with the car before this work, now I've hardly been able to get it running long enough to warm up at idle.

Part of why I haven't shipped it back to them again yet is that I wanted to have the chance to get my own eyes on things under the car. Not easy with my schedule right now. So at least now if I need to do anything with the shop, I can refer to specific issues I have seen and not just take their word.


Onespeed - it is my understanding that it was the owner himself along with one of his mechanics who cut it in the first place. And it was the owner who flared it. In the initial test-drive after flaring and bleeding the lines, it did hold pressure and work. I tried being open-minded about it and give it a try, but I have this nagging voice in my head saying not to trust the car. I don't want a car I can't feel safe driving.

 

If the lines were double flared (as they should be) you are OK. However I would also be concerned about how they secured and routed the repaired lines. Considering the level of workmanship you've described I wouldn't trust that the lines were double flared. By rights they should replace the entire line. They weren't two piecers when you brought it to them and the work they performed surely didn't require they cut the lines. Good luck.

 

When I built my street rod I bought the proper tools and made my own brake lines, so I can tell you that if the flares were done properly, you will have no braking problems. Flare connectors typically don't come apart on their own. However, based on their lousy workmanship on your clutch job, I would be suspect on the quality of anything they did.

 

I saw the first... and second... attempt to flare the lines. They had trouble. When they thought they had it, they had me hop in the car and raised it up so they could observe while I pushed the pedal. They leaked. So I pretty much sat in the driver seat fifteen feet up for 40 minutes while the owner and an assistant tried several times to get it solid. They DID finally get it to connect and hold.

I asked if they had been trying a 45* flare at first, to which they said yes. I said so the problem was the steel lines splitting. The owner agreed, yes. So they went with the lower degree flare and that seems to have worked.

When the broken lines were the only known problem with the car at time of pick up and payment, I was leery but grudgingly ok so long as they held. My intent was to take the car to a large empty parking lot and stand on the brakes to test functionality from a slow speed in a controlled environment.

I have yet to even get the car successfully across town on its own. LOL

With so many other problems being discovered now, I'm ok with the simple bolt on parts being fixed or swapped out, but my concern over the brakes has become an actual fear. There are 2 flare union sections in each line. 4 junctions which is 8 separate flares. The lines were not even secured to the tunnel until they get into the drive tube area. They're hanging free next to the header collector.

 

That's a big NO GO! I would DEMAND new hard lines from origin to termination installed and secured as originally delivered from the factory. Very hard for them to dispute a significant safety issue. If your state has a Bureau of Automotive Repairs office contact them and see if they can help. Next stop might be small claims. They applied a band aid not a cure. JMO As before good luck.

 

Double flared lines are just fine, if done correctly.

I have used double compression fittings for 25+ years on just about anything, including brakes. These fittings aren't cheap, range from $15 to $25 depending on the size. I only use the stainless steel version. Take a look at Swagelock fittings sometime.

There are also steel fittings available which are DOT legal, they are not double compression, but they are legal to use on brake lines. You can get them from McMaster-Carr, less than $10 a piece.

Since everyone and their mother seems to make replacement parts for Corvettes, you can just get a few new pre-bent brake lines also.

It kills me when people "fix" stuff and do it half-assed, like leaving the brake lines hanging in the breeze with no support.

 

I really sympathize with your situation, however I think it might be somewhat difficult to find pre-bent, one piece lines, to re-plumb your brake lines. Having said that, over the years, I've had several "winter beaters", to save my good cars from the ravages of road salt. I'd always go shopping for one of these beaters during the summer, so I could get it ready for the winter driving season. And on every one of those cars, I'd replace the brake lines. It wasn't always possible to make the lines in one piece, especially the rear line down the left side of the car, but I had a good flaring tool, and never had any leakage issues.

 

Whoa, dude, Compression fittings???? Totally ILLEGAL, I don't care WHERE you live.
I'd ramp that baby to a reputable Vette Shop, or even a Chevrolet Dealer and get a quote on putting it all RIGHT..
Then I'd be back at that shop with a bill and a LAWYER'S NAME...

 

If you paid with a credit card, call their customer service number to initiate a refund. I would not trust that shop to work on the car again. Sounds like they caused more problems than they repaired and let you pay them and release the car knowing it was f---ed up! Very very bad thing for a shop owner to do, period.

 

I wouldn't trust that shop for the repair, but I wouldn't drive it till it was repaired the correct way. If those lines weren't double flared they are NOT safe.

I'd be contacting some of the vendors on here to see if you could by some new ones.

 

No they are not. Look and you will find DOT compression fittings.

Also, not all flexible stainless brake lines are legal. Yes, there are plenty of good lines out there, but only a few companies submit their lines to get them labeled as DOT legal.

 

Looking at the original question...flared hardlines have actually been used for many moons and at the end of all hardlines, the metal is flared...

The position of where your lines are at, it would be better to just have new lines put in (I say this as bleeding breaks suck!)...but why would you cut the lines anyways? I did this by accident, but I was cutting half a car apart and thought the line was out of the way...but it was cheaper and easier to just get a new line with flared ends and nuts.

I would honestly make them replace the lines in full instead of putting a flare in the middle of the line. As you said...the constant vibrations will/may cause undo ware on the O2 wires...but should not cause any leaking or loss of pressure on the brakes.

 

New, pre-bent, brake lines are unavailable from GM.

Call Marc at Vettenuts.net and tell him which ones you need. He and his folks are very careful on their disassembly of the salvage cars that he gets in, and I'm confident he'll have some good ones.

1-615-896-6100

Btw, the flares used on your car are not the traditional SAE 45° double flares. The lines are metric tubes and the flares are bubble-flares.

HTH

Example comparisons


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