C5 manual steering?
05-13-2016, 10:24 PM
#6
Pro
Thread Starter
05-13-2016, 11:44 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
The last car I had without assisted steering was an 85 RX-7, and it weighed 2465 pounds. That car actually had lighter steering when on the highway than my 89 Z51 Corvette. In order to get steering boost in the Corvette you had to put in more force and to do the small corrections at speed, the Corvette with assist was actually heavier than the unassisted steering in the RX-7.
That said, the manual steering RX-7 was slower than the power assisted version, and a lot slower than the steering in the Corvette and in order to park the car you had to be moving a bit to steer it, but so long as you kept it moving and weren't just trying to scrub the rubber was fine, but it took some muscle to do it.
I autocrossed the car extensively and one year after the winter layoff I took the car out for my first event in the spring and pulled the muscles in my chest trying to steer through fast tight course. Every year after that, before I raced the car I'd do some serious exercises to get my strength up before I hit the track.
The other thing that would make it interesting is that the Corvette has zero scrub radius, which would help make the steering lighter (and have less kickback) so you may be able to get away with it, but I would think that you would need to slow down the steering to get it to work.
To give you an example of how slow the steering was on the RX-7 we had a fast slalom on an autocross course and to get through it I had to put in about 270 degrees of steering angle in each direction. I had my hands at 3 and 9 and to go in one direction I put in hand at 9 all the way around to 6 o'clock and then as I unwound the wheel, I picked up the 3 o'clock position and spun that 270 degrees down to the 6 o'clock position... Basically I was putting in about 540 degrees of steering in about a second...
A vehicle dynamics engineer that worked at Milford and was doing all of their "expert witness" testimony. in court rode with me on one run and he got out of the car laughing.. He said "you've just screwed up all of our all of our theories on how fast steering lock can be applied and now I'm going to have to go to work on Monday and tell the lawyers nothing we've been saying is right!"
In a C5 the amount of steering lock for the same maneuver is going to be probably about half that of the RX-7 and the RX7 weighed 500 pounds less than the Corvette. Bottom line is that if you wanted to put manual steering in C5 you would have to slow it down or you'd need to be Jack Armstrong to steer the car.
C3's had power steering as an option an it was a "bolt on" assist system. Those cars typically weighed around 3200 pounds and a good number of those cars were delivered without power steering, but those cars had much skinnier rubber, had slower steering and had steering offset so you could move the steering wheel with the car not moving.
That said, the manual steering RX-7 was slower than the power assisted version, and a lot slower than the steering in the Corvette and in order to park the car you had to be moving a bit to steer it, but so long as you kept it moving and weren't just trying to scrub the rubber was fine, but it took some muscle to do it.
I autocrossed the car extensively and one year after the winter layoff I took the car out for my first event in the spring and pulled the muscles in my chest trying to steer through fast tight course. Every year after that, before I raced the car I'd do some serious exercises to get my strength up before I hit the track.
The other thing that would make it interesting is that the Corvette has zero scrub radius, which would help make the steering lighter (and have less kickback) so you may be able to get away with it, but I would think that you would need to slow down the steering to get it to work.
To give you an example of how slow the steering was on the RX-7 we had a fast slalom on an autocross course and to get through it I had to put in about 270 degrees of steering angle in each direction. I had my hands at 3 and 9 and to go in one direction I put in hand at 9 all the way around to 6 o'clock and then as I unwound the wheel, I picked up the 3 o'clock position and spun that 270 degrees down to the 6 o'clock position... Basically I was putting in about 540 degrees of steering in about a second...
A vehicle dynamics engineer that worked at Milford and was doing all of their "expert witness" testimony. in court rode with me on one run and he got out of the car laughing.. He said "you've just screwed up all of our all of our theories on how fast steering lock can be applied and now I'm going to have to go to work on Monday and tell the lawyers nothing we've been saying is right!"
In a C5 the amount of steering lock for the same maneuver is going to be probably about half that of the RX-7 and the RX7 weighed 500 pounds less than the Corvette. Bottom line is that if you wanted to put manual steering in C5 you would have to slow it down or you'd need to be Jack Armstrong to steer the car.
C3's had power steering as an option an it was a "bolt on" assist system. Those cars typically weighed around 3200 pounds and a good number of those cars were delivered without power steering, but those cars had much skinnier rubber, had slower steering and had steering offset so you could move the steering wheel with the car not moving.
Last edited by Solofast; 05-13-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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Loucifer (03-14-2022)
05-14-2016, 05:25 AM
#8
Team Owner
The last car I had without assisted steering was an 85 RX-7, and it weighed 2465 pounds. That car actually had lighter steering when on the highway than my 89 Z51 Corvette. In order to get steering boost in the Corvette you had to put in more force and to do the small corrections at speed, the Corvette with assist was actually heavier than the unassisted steering in the RX-7.
That said, the manual steering RX-7 was slower than the power assisted version, and a lot slower than the steering in the Corvette and in order to park the car you had to be moving a bit to steer it, but so long as you kept it moving and weren't just trying to scrub the rubber was fine, but it took some muscle to do it.
I autocrossed the car extensively and one year after the winter layoff I took the car out for my first event in the spring and pulled the muscles in my chest trying to steer through fast tight course. Every year after that, before I raced the car I'd do some serious exercises to get my strength up before I hit the track.
The other thing that would make it interesting is that the Corvette has zero scrub radius, which would help make the steering lighter (and have less kickback) so you may be able to get away with it, but I would think that you would need to slow down the steering to get it to work.
To give you an example of how slow the steering was on the RX-7 we had a fast slalom on an autocross course and to get through it I had to put in about 270 degrees of steering angle in each direction. I had my hands at 3 and 9 and to go in one direction I put in hand at 9 all the way around to 6 o'clock and then as I unwound the wheel, I picked up the 3 o'clock position and spun that 270 degrees down to the 6 o'clock position... Basically I was putting in about 540 degrees of steering in about a second...
A vehicle dynamics engineer that worked at Milford and was doing all of their "expert witness" testimony. in court rode with me on one run and he got out of the car laughing.. He said "you've just screwed up all of our all of our theories on how fast steering lock can be applied and now I'm going to have to go to work on Monday and tell the lawyers nothing we've been saying is right!"
In a C5 the amount of steering lock for the same maneuver is going to be probably about half that of the RX-7 and the RX7 weighed 500 pounds less than the Corvette. Bottom line is that if you wanted to put manual steering in C5 you would have to slow it down or you'd need to be Jack Armstrong to steer the car.
C3's had power steering as an option an it was a "bolt on" assist system. Those cars typically weighed around 3200 pounds and a good number of those cars were delivered without power steering, but those cars had much skinnier rubber, had slower steering and had steering offset so you could move the steering wheel with the car not moving.
That said, the manual steering RX-7 was slower than the power assisted version, and a lot slower than the steering in the Corvette and in order to park the car you had to be moving a bit to steer it, but so long as you kept it moving and weren't just trying to scrub the rubber was fine, but it took some muscle to do it.
I autocrossed the car extensively and one year after the winter layoff I took the car out for my first event in the spring and pulled the muscles in my chest trying to steer through fast tight course. Every year after that, before I raced the car I'd do some serious exercises to get my strength up before I hit the track.
The other thing that would make it interesting is that the Corvette has zero scrub radius, which would help make the steering lighter (and have less kickback) so you may be able to get away with it, but I would think that you would need to slow down the steering to get it to work.
To give you an example of how slow the steering was on the RX-7 we had a fast slalom on an autocross course and to get through it I had to put in about 270 degrees of steering angle in each direction. I had my hands at 3 and 9 and to go in one direction I put in hand at 9 all the way around to 6 o'clock and then as I unwound the wheel, I picked up the 3 o'clock position and spun that 270 degrees down to the 6 o'clock position... Basically I was putting in about 540 degrees of steering in about a second...
A vehicle dynamics engineer that worked at Milford and was doing all of their "expert witness" testimony. in court rode with me on one run and he got out of the car laughing.. He said "you've just screwed up all of our all of our theories on how fast steering lock can be applied and now I'm going to have to go to work on Monday and tell the lawyers nothing we've been saying is right!"
In a C5 the amount of steering lock for the same maneuver is going to be probably about half that of the RX-7 and the RX7 weighed 500 pounds less than the Corvette. Bottom line is that if you wanted to put manual steering in C5 you would have to slow it down or you'd need to be Jack Armstrong to steer the car.
C3's had power steering as an option an it was a "bolt on" assist system. Those cars typically weighed around 3200 pounds and a good number of those cars were delivered without power steering, but those cars had much skinnier rubber, had slower steering and had steering offset so you could move the steering wheel with the car not moving.
05-14-2016, 10:33 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
The RX-7 had a front axle weight of 1350 lbs. If you had a light Corvette (3000 lbs) and a true 50/50 weight distribution you wouldn't be that far (only 150 lbs more) or about 10% more weight on the front axle.
If you could get some weight off the front axle, put in a slower steering rack you could make it work, but it's going to take some heft to steer it for parking. With the low scrub radius of today's cars it might be pretty easy to steer and wouldn't have much kickback on the highway.
05-14-2016, 11:24 AM
#10
Racer
05-14-2016, 12:54 PM
#11
Safety Car
05-14-2016, 01:05 PM
#12
Racer
Interesting, is there a bracket available to move the alternator, or did you make one? My ac is already gone and I have the ati balancer that has no ac pulley, wonder how I'd make that work.
05-14-2016, 05:49 PM
#13
Safety Car
Last edited by Chris Stewart; 05-14-2016 at 05:51 PM.
05-14-2016, 09:21 PM
#15
AMP Racing
Member Since: Aug 2006
Location: Washington TWP NJ
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2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
Looks great, Chris. You're going to have to do a write up thread about it with part numbers and wiring diagrams though. 
OP, my car is a track only car, so it might not be relevant, but all the lines to my rack have been removed and left open. The pump is gone too.
It works fine in the pits and such.
OP, my car is a track only car, so it might not be relevant, but all the lines to my rack have been removed and left open. The pump is gone too.
It works fine in the pits and such.
05-15-2016, 03:31 AM
#16
Pro
Thread Starter
Looks great, Chris. You're going to have to do a write up thread about it with part numbers and wiring diagrams though.
OP, my car is a track only car, so it might not be relevant, but all the lines to my rack have been removed and left open. The pump is gone too.
It works fine in the pits and such.
OP, my car is a track only car, so it might not be relevant, but all the lines to my rack have been removed and left open. The pump is gone too.
It works fine in the pits and such.
Chris at ECS hooked me up with a guy that makes a neat kit for $1500.
10-17-2016, 09:29 PM
#18
AMP Racing
Member Since: Aug 2006
Location: Washington TWP NJ
Posts: 10,446
Received 466 Likes
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352 Posts
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12
As I mentioned upthread, mine are just left open. Not looped around.
No pump.
Track only car.
No pump.
Track only car.