like the title says, i am starting to think about it. here is what i have now...


2001 base model, 6 speed trans.. 88k miles

what i think i want..

i want the motor rebuilt, for no other reason but to say it is new.

i want a cam, i love that lopy sound but i want it driveable as well.

at the end of the build i would like to be around 500 hp to the wheels.

like i said i am in the beginning stages of thinking about it. i have a budget of around 5k for parts, i would have a shop do all the work as i don't think i have the ability to do it myself, at least with not having a garage.

to reach my goal of 500 hp, would i need to change the heads? i have the 243's now and i have heard nothing but good things about them. let me know your thoughts, i will be off doing some more research..

Mike

 

500rwhp is most likely going to take either bigger cubes or forced induction/nitrous, if you want 500 at the crank then that is easily doable... a few have cracked 500rw with a stock cube ls1/6 but it takes a lot of money and attention to detail and in my opinion really isn't worth it, there are cheaper/easier ways to break that barrier

 

Five g's aren't enough to reach your target, barely enough to get started. It will realistically take at least twice that. In addition to parts, you'll need a dyno tune at the end to get the car running properly. If you're not doing the work yourself, then the price will spiral due to labor charges.

 

this is why i am in the beginning stages of the build!!! i have not even started and my budget has doubled!! LOL!

the end HP number really is not what is important to me honestly. i dont track the car and usually just drive it to work once or twice a week. with the 5k budget i think it would be safe to say that i could get the rebuild, the cam, and maybe an exhaust put on with that budget. as far as the heads go i can probably get some head work done at a later date.

does that sound about right to everyone??


thanks!

Mike

 

Headers, heads and a cam are about as far as you can go (without some type of forced induction) and stay under $5 to $7.5K (plus installation cost). And that all depends upon whose products you buy. 'Cause you can double those costs for the same products depending on the brands you buy. For example, LGs Pro headers are 50 to 75% higher than some other brands, yet the difference to a non-racer isn't noticeable. Ported/polished 243s are good, or you can also step up to AFRs or more. Same with the cam you choose.

Then there are all of the lesser bits that are (maybe) important: an oiler cooler? Transmission cooler? Upgraded radiator/fans? The list goes on.

In my judgment (since you aren't racing the car) bragging rights are the key - how much are you willing to pay for them?

How do I know? Because I went the "all in" high branded products route: AFR 210 headers, LG Super Pro headers, comp blower cam, RPM Level 6 race transmission (for my A/T), DeWitt radiator, Spal fans, A&A supercharger, LG coil-overs, B&B PRT exhaust, etc., and all tuned to yield 600 rwhp. For what purpose? I mean, I don't race it. My wife occasionally asks, "So why did you spend all of that money on this stuff?" My lame reply is, "Because I could."

Now I'm at my limit: can't make further significant power gains without major bucks: forged bottom end or LSX block; upgraded drive train parts, etc. would set me back another $10 - $15K. And while I might get to 800 rwhp, who cares. 'Cause I still don't intend to race it. So I'm now in "more upgrades" withdrawal, and the DTs are almost as bad as those of a recently-stopped cigarette smoker.

In any event, getting a great tune after you install all of these parts is key.

The Lizzard

 

I agree completely with this ^^. When I first bought my z06 I wanted more "potential". My budget was prolly $7-8Gs; that was my mind's "tolerance". My goal was just 'shy of 500 rwhp' because conventional wisdom from all the authors on this forum said more RWHP would necessitate drivetrain upgrades--minimally, a beefier clutch, maybe better half-shafts, and probably a tranny and diff brace if not to include a stronger transmission.

The "wise" recommendation for "cheap" uncomplicated HP was that I should expect a minimum of $6,000 (at a fire sale) for an installed supercharger. Then I should save up for the clutch to go out. After weeks of reading and note-taking, I figured that H/C/I for ~450-480rwhp would cost ~$11,000 incl labor. SC w/ a new stronger clutch would run at least $8Gs--the other consideration was a turbo--there aren't too many choices out there with proven longevity (>50,000 miles of reliability) and the turbo choice would cost more than an SC, but maybe less than H/C/I. So I passed on the turbo idea, too.

In the end, I waited until the clutch went out at 86,000 miles. The labor to R&R the clutch includes dropping the torque tube, transmission, and differential--they all have to come out to service the clutch. So I replaced the clutch with a McLeod RST, added all new clutch parts since I was in there, added a Tick master cylinder, clutch bleeder, lightweight flywheel, 4.10 gears and new torque tube bushings (recommended at 100,000 miles, so I did it to save redundant labor). No tune needed; no additional strengthening required within the engine or trans (no braces needed). Not including the actual clutch and its' parts and master cylinder and torque tube bushings replacement (I consider all those 'prudent' for the clutch rebuild), the flywheel and 4.10 gears cost an additional ~$2500 installed.

From all I've ever read, just the addition of a lightweight flywheel (14 lb as I recall) and the 4.10s really shave straight-line times. There are posts in the times section of the c5 forum that show some guys with my exact mods getting down to 11.3 in the qtr mile on slicks.

For me, 4.10s and the Lwt flywheel was the best option--it was 'cheap', it didn't require a tune, and the work was fairly straightforward enough that I could trust an "unknown" proprietor to accomplish the R&R without errors. I say "unknown" because I'd never used the speed shop before; locally, it seems to have a decent reputation but I had no previous personal experience and could only rely on internet feedback. The good feature about this route is, for "little" money, I didn't have to rely on an "unknown" wrench to suggest the exactly-correct combination of H/C/I with a proper one-time, one-chance tune to crank out "500rwhp" with reliability and infallible performance. The speedshop I chose was 200 miles from home; I didn't wanna have to go back for tweaking(s). This forum is littered with guys who've had H/C/I mods done who ask members for after-install advice, "what's wrong with my build?" 4.10s , a flywheel and headers can be 'brainless'. And "cheap". They might be enough for you, too. One last thing to consider--adding 4.10s pretty much eliminates extensive engine mods because 1st gear will be almost useless if one uses a combination of 4.10s and an SC or H/C/I.

 

500 Hp N/A at the wheels is asking a lot from 5.7L's without sacrificing drivability and reliability.
A built LS3 stroker 416ci engine with a mild cam would get you there. As mentioned above, if you ever plan on putting that power to the pavement you will need to spend a substantial amount of money on building up the drive-line.

 

so i ask this next question, and maybe i should go up a section and ask there as well, but IF my final goal was to get in the 500 HP range should i step up to the C6?

i value the opinions of those here in the forums, which is why i am here.

 

you could easily do it with forced induction if you aren't opposed to that but n/a will not be easy... then you wouldn't have to switch cars unless the c6 appeals more to you... but an 05-07 base will be no easier to make 500rwhp than it would be on a c5, you will at least need an 08+ with the ls3 or step up to a z06/zr1

 

The money would be better spent on an 08 or newer C6 - especially if you're not doing the work yourself. I like the C6 and prices are dropping. I suspect there will be many more of them on the market if the 2019 models are changed drastically as predicted. A mid-engine Corvette would be a game changer there will be a long line to get one.

 

Step up to a C6 Grand Sport 6-speed and you'll acquire a stock motor with a forged bottom end.

The Lizzard

 

490rw is possible
Prc 225 heads from tx speed comes with springs.
Ms4 cam
Ported fast 102
102 tb
Its possible.
Seen a bird with more drivetrain loss touch 483/433 with that combo
There is a 04 z06 on youtube hit 492 with those heads and cam but with a ported 92/90 combo.

Dyno numbers are just numbers, but that combo with a good tune would be 10sec power if you can really drive. But low 11s is fine too.

This is all imo.
Merry Xmas

 

Hi Mike:

You've received some great advice from the members here. The ultimate question for you to really consider is what you are wanting. If you're not racing the car then 500rwhp is not a biggie, other than perhaps for some bragging rights (and we all like to have something special about our ride. ). And 500rwhp will require much additional work along the way (as others have already pointed out).

If you want a rebuilt engine - as you mention - just to know the wear components are new; do that and add a mild cam that has a good loping sound that you are looking for. Even with a mild cam, I'd recommend a good tune. Then go to a lower ratio rear end (higher number) as dork mentioned and you'll feel an immediate boost in performance.

You should be able to do that with the budget you have. You'll have a car with even better performance than it already has. And, you'll have a car that sounds "cool" and is not too temperamental to drive around town.

Best wishes with whatever direction you go.

 

If you didn’t already buy the car, I would go with a C6. (if you chasing that 500hp number)
It cost me over 5k in parts alone to get less than 450 to the rear wheels out of an existing low mileage LS1., and I did all the work myself (except for the dyno tune).

Heads, cam, intake, exhaust and all of the supporting parts quickly add up. You cant cut corners if you want it to last.
You can always do a mild build and add a 100 shot………not my choice but it works.

You would save yourself a lot of trouble by deciding exactly what you want to do with the car …exactly what…..

 

ok.. still thinking about this project.

i already have the car, bought for 12k. not a bad deal i dont thnk. i bought it to work on, to play around with.. and here goes another thought.

yes the end goal is to have a rebuilt (new) motor in the vette even though i dont think it needs it. 2nd objective would be the cam, i want the sound of a nice lopey cam.. at the end of the build i would have been happy around the 500 HP mark, but between the replys here and videos that i have watched online that number is not going to be reachable. at least not with my budget and not with the current C5.

decision that i am leaning towards is to keep the current C5. i am thinking about sticking with the same 5-7500 budget and doing the work myself. after all that is why i bought the car in the 1st place. so with that being said if i was to make the decision today i am thinking about pulling the motor next winter, rebuild it and put back in the car the following spring.

now with all that being said, lets talk about my abilities.. i am 38, feel like i am 20, look like i am 60. i am in the military, i am currently working on helicopters, (MH-60S) so i know that i can break down and rebuild the motor no problems, however where i will be needing the most help will be the inspection of the components coming off.. which i am sure that with the help of this forum, along with lots of pictures we will get thru the entire build process together! along with a bunch of youtube videos of course.

so with all that being said, stay tuned! cause i am sure i will be asking alot of questions because i need to get a parts list together of what i am going to need.

 

Thanks for your service.

When I was in the Navy there was an auto hobby shop that was a good resource.

 

88000 miles sounds like a hell of a lot of miles…………….But in reality, its really not.
Do you know the history of the car? Its maintenance records? Oil changes?

Maybe do a compression test and send in an oil sample to Blackstone labs.
Could end up not needing a rebuild. Even a stock rebuild can take on a life of its own.

 

88k is just broken in.

With your budget, I'd do heads, cam and full bolt ons, or super charger and full exhaust.

C5s are not hard to work on. You can save a fortune doing the install yourself.

http://ls1howto.com/

 

88k really isnt alot of miles i agree. as far as history of the car, it was a 1 owner, maintained at a dealership as when i bought the car the doctor that owned it left all the paperwork in the trunk. i know it has been well cared for.

however, and please correct me if i am wrong...

adding heads, cam, and bolt ons could add stress to the internals which could cause the internals to fail more quickly. which is really the only reason i would consider the rebuild. i have no doubts that i could install the mods and be ok for another 50k miles, but if i did a rebuild i should be good for another 120k miles.. not to mention if i did install the mods and not do the rebuild what if i damage the new parts i just put in? i guess tho even with a rebuild i could still do it wrong or something happen and damage something anyways. its just the cost of playing the game. i guess i could do the heads and cam and then go from there and see what happens..

thoughts?



Mike

 

Everyone here is more than happy to help.

At your age, I'll bet you no longer have to spin many wrenches on those Blackhawks - instead teaching the youngsters how do that stuff.

What post and unit are you assigned to? The good news is that most Army posts have auto shops where you can take advantage of their lifts, etc. to do some of the heavy lifting. Hope such facilities are available for your rebuild.

My son used to wrench on Chinooks and Blackhawks while in the 160th at Fort Campbell. Then he dropped a warrant packet, got his wings at Rucker and he's now a CWO and Blackhawk driver (he's tracked as an MTP). He just finished 4 years with the 101st Airborne at Campbell and in October PCS'd to Bragg with the 82nd Airborne. The 160th has asked him to assess back into the Regiment as a pilot, so he'll likely go through assessment after finishing the obligatory "one year" at Bragg.

Hope things with your unit are safe. I understand the 82nd CAB is on worldwide standby, and some of the 82nd's infantry units are presently in Afghanistan.

Good luck with the build.

The Lizzard