I am at a crossroads and not sure which direction to take.

I am seriously considering going with the ATI procharger. I can get a setup installed for about 7-8k.

Head's and cam may be a bit cheaper, but heck, emissions and power are less than the procharger.

So the bonuses I see to procharger are: I keep my engine warranty, more power, 3 year warranty on the PC itself.
Negatives? - Cost 2,000 more? In the grand scheme of things this seems CHEAP

I'd like to get some more professional (or even amateur) opinions on this.

I am ready to make the next leap, but I don't want to step into a big black pit. :D

Thanks all!

 

I'm hardly an expert, but here goes:

Why do you think you'd keep your engine warranty? By putting a S/C on? I doubt it seriously, unless there's something I don't know.

A technical problem with the S/C is that since they boost the pressure in the cyls, if you've already got fairly high C/R, you run the risk of detonation, unless you can get really high octane fuel. Because of this, the A/F ratio will need to be tuned to a tee, all the way across the powerband. In order to get enough fuel you'll need to get new injectors (most likely, again, I don't know that much about the LS1).

Finally, because the risk of blowing-up the engine is much greater with a power adder vs. N/A, it just doesn't make sense to me to S/C, unless it's for racing applications only, and you've got the $$ to replace the entire setup.

 

According to vortech, it doesn't void waranty, read URL below: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/tech/faq.html#14

Hrmmm - I haven't heard of the engine blowing issues. I will have to investigate this further. But isn't this true with a head/cam that you could have some serious engine failure as well?

Now for NOS, I have heard this to be the case quite a bit, but for a S/C? I will have to do some more searching, but I am glad you brought it to my attention. My new search zeal will now be engine failure with S/C's. If anyone already has some bookmarked threads PLEASE email me or post em on this thread.

Thanks!
:cheers:

 

Obviously, any mods that you do to get more power are going to increase the likelihood of problems. You don't get something for nothing. But staying N/A is less likely to cause you a serious problem, since the engine is pulling in the air it needs under vacuum. In contrast, with a S/C or N2O, you're force feeding oxygen into the system, and you must be absolutely sure that the fuel injectors can keep up---otherwise BOOM.

 

The only way you would be able to get your engine warrantied would be if you would pay to get the supercharger completely de-installed after the engine damage is done and before you take it to the dealer.. At 18-20 hour install, and then a reflash back to stock PCM program, you are looking at quite the de-installation bill, and for the same price you could also bring a heads/cam car back to completely stock for warranty work.

Superchargers are great, but they have their downfalls. I don't feel they are quite as reliable as everyone think either. If you go with a nice reliable moderate SC install, you really aren't looking at any extra power over a good reliable heads/cam package, and you are paying probably $2000-3000 more. If you want to run a nice amount of boost and probably cut the life of your bottom end in 1/3, then sure you can get near superstroker power out of a Supercharger.

I look forward to seeing what people think of all these forced induction kits coming out after having them on their cars for a year or two.. I feel the downsides will be more evident then. Just remember, supercharges and turbos have been out for quite a few years for the LS1 fbody guys and most of them still choose doing things the natural way with heads/cam strokers, etc.. I feel that is for a reason.

Either way, good luck with your selection, and if you decide to go the natural route, drop me an email for details on ARE heads/cam package pricing.

 

Well, I've been hanging out on the Mustang websites for some time now (see sig) and I think I could count on my hands how many guys have S/C'd without a problem. Every week you'll read a thread about somebody's just gotten a S/C, and the next week, he's blown his engine.

Now I know that the 4.6 isn't at all like the LS1, but physics is physics.

 

There is nothing like the power of the darkside! Come get blown and put down more power than strokers with nos....the only ones that have blown were ones not programmed right and had too much boost...and grenaded the piston. The rest of us seem to be doing fine...a conservative pully 5-6 lbs of boost will get you way more power than a H&C package...most of the conservative D1's are putting out over 490/450 RWHP/RWTQ. You go with a cam/headers and 7-9lbs of boost and you are talking closer to 550/480 RWHP/RWTQ.

 

Way to many heating problems in the Marine Industry w/ Prochargers---not sure about this on the the LS1. I think I would lean toward H/C --IF--you have a reliable tuner. :smash:

:cheers:

 

Super charging is a good reliable way to make more power, while still retaining everyday driveability. H/C packages are also a good way. Both setups can be very dependable in an everyday situation, but on the same note, both setups can cause big problems if they are not installed and tuned correctly. Other posts to this thread mentioned a large number of people having trouble blowing engines after a S/C install, I would be willing to bet that every one of those failures was due to improper tuning, or compression ratio/boost level issues. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that no matter what route you go, you should buy your parts from a tuner that can also supply you with the correct calibration to make them work, and is willing to stand by you untill you achieve the agreed upon results.
Feel free to e-mail me with any questions.
Ed

 

I hear the 4.6 will die pretty easy with a S/C. A crappy motor that can't handle it. I don't hear the same things about the LS1, but my search for more info on this continues.

 

I have pretty well narrowed my search to either Lingenfelter or Speedworks in the Dallas area.

 

Just remember, SC's and Turbos are pretty new to C5s and there isn't that many members out there with a lot of miles on their forced induction engine packages. For LS1 reliability with FI, I would recommend checking out the Forced Induction sections on ls1tech.com and ls1.com.

Ed from LPE is very correct with what he said. Tuning and proper compression ratio is VERY important for supercharged applications. That is why if you look into Lingenfelter's Supercharger packages available, they are built to work at power levels that can be warrantied and VERY reliable, which in turn do not make any more power than most heads/cam packages are. This is my reasoning for believing if reliability and cost effectiveness is what you are after, heads/cam is the way to go.

Please no supercharged guys take this as a flame as this is only my opinion. I know with higher boost, superchargers can outpower naturally aspirated cars, but the person that made this post seems most concerned with a reliable, cost effective package.




[Modified by MattG, 10:13 AM 11/1/2002]

 

Yeah, one problem with the 4.6 GT engine is that the pistons are hypereutectics, and are fairly brittle. There was one guy there who put on the S/C, after a lot of other mods, went to the trouble of having it dyno-tuned by a very reputable tuner, and still blew the damned thing up. Go figure.

 

if you want reliable, why not consider the magnacharger. lots of torque. nice flat curve. good power. and i cant imagine there being many problems with it.

 

None taken MattG!
I think DBZ06 and Jbsblown have had their units on for awhile. If given a choice over heads and cam and an SC...I think an S/C with 5-7lbs of boost is reliable on a stock motor, and makes close to Stroker Numbers...a few of us are running H&C or cam w/upgraded valve springs with S/C's too. I think we have accepted the fact that a forged lower is in the future! But Nick himself told me....you might suprised at how long your car will last..H&C is fun...I think that if I had a stock LS1 I would do both H&C and S/C...I would not recommend the Magnacharger...it is a warranty piece and I don't find the numbers it puts out to be very impressive. A few guys are starting to drag their ATI's (Vortec's are on the way) and got into the low 11's easy...I think it will not be long before somebody breaks the mid 10's. Like I mentioned in one post already...H&C cars have been around for 5 years now and are just now making it into the 10's..give us S/C guys some time.

 

I used to run the ati 600b on my c4. One problem after another. I couldnt seem to meter things very well. Surging idle, code 33,36 very common. Most of the problems could have been eliminated by a seperate fuel mamgment system. I ended up blowing a couple motors. Mostly from detination. For the C5, Im going with heads/cam.

 

I agree with MattG's comments. I used to be heavily into mustangs and I believe that there is a fallacy that superchargers are low maintenance items, even after tuning. What I saw and witnessed was the complete opposite. SC's are finicky and have to have excellent programming. Even after programming was done, guys would have problems with belt slippage, fuel pumps and management units, etc. I would love to have LPE's package, because it looks sorted out and I really respect the LPE name, but I would probably save some money and go with a good NA package.

 

Yeah, been my observation that the number of people having trouble with S/C's is a lot higher than those who don't.

 

this is very cool, a lot of excellent advice, and no flames for anyone!! I think we are learning to get along!!
But seriously, I think both setups can be built to equal levels of power, and reliability, it really all boils down to owner preference. Some guys just like to have that S/C under the hood!! Whatever a persons preference, I think we all agree that proper tuning is the key, I have seen some shops advertise that their packages (H/C mainly) don't require any ECM tuning, and this is simply untrue. The engine may start up and run with a stock ECM, but you will have problems with it. There are several very reputable tuners that "hang out" in these forums, I guess one way to tell them apart from the rest is that they are more likely to help you make an informed decision, rather than just push parts on you.

Ed

 

BTW, what is the stock C/R of the LS1? It already requires premium gas, so how much higher in boost pressure can/could you go without going to racing gas? :confused: