Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity?
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,032
Likes: 124
From: Dallas TX
Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity?
I've been wanting a cam package with custom tuning for a few months. I would do the titanium retainers, good upgraded valve springs, and a nice cam with custom tuning.
As far as the motor goes, will it hurt long-term reliability and longevity? I've been hesitant to 'open' the motor up as my internally stock motor has been absolutely perfect.
Any comments? :confused:
As far as the motor goes, will it hurt long-term reliability and longevity? I've been hesitant to 'open' the motor up as my internally stock motor has been absolutely perfect.
Any comments? :confused:
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,456
Likes: 5
From: Bothell WA
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (QUIKAG)
It will be interesting to see what others say, but my conclussion is yes, it will hurt long-term reliability. I've seen 2 local cars that have broken valve springs and I have heard of others on this board that have broken valve springs as well. I think that if you do go with an agressive cam, you should plan to periodically replace the valve springs.
- Mark
- Mark
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: Naperville, IL. USA
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (Mark VerMurlen)
I am just embarking on this endeavor myself. My understanding is that broken valve springs are probably a result of not matching the right spring specs to the cam specs. Perhaps someone tried to get away w/ the stock springs and a slightly more aggressive cam or a cam that is too aggressive for the spec'd spring. Then again, there are certainly cases of quality control on aftermarket springs which result in failure.
For the most part, careful research on specs, manufacturer, overall package specs (not just invididual components), quality of installation, and careful tuning will determine how successful the H/C package is.
My $0.02 about long-term reliability and longevity is that most of the time any additional power realized is at the cost of relatively greater stress than before on the components. Technically it would be logical that greater stress shortens life of components, but by how much is uncertain. Would it really matter to you if certain parts lasted 20 years instead of 21? With that said, we even try to mitigate this by adding new, aftermarket components designed to handle the add'l stress.
I'd be interested in the perspectives of others.
:cheers:
[Modified by ModifiedC5, 11:56 AM 11/5/2002]
For the most part, careful research on specs, manufacturer, overall package specs (not just invididual components), quality of installation, and careful tuning will determine how successful the H/C package is.
My $0.02 about long-term reliability and longevity is that most of the time any additional power realized is at the cost of relatively greater stress than before on the components. Technically it would be logical that greater stress shortens life of components, but by how much is uncertain. Would it really matter to you if certain parts lasted 20 years instead of 21? With that said, we even try to mitigate this by adding new, aftermarket components designed to handle the add'l stress.
I'd be interested in the perspectives of others.
:cheers:
[Modified by ModifiedC5, 11:56 AM 11/5/2002]
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,613
Likes: 0
From: Spring Tx
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (Mark VerMurlen)
In most cases the answer is yes, but a properly thought out system can be made as reliable as stock. Gm does it on the ZO6 by lightening the valve train, using less steep ramp rates and only enough valve spring to get the job done.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,032
Likes: 124
From: Dallas TX
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (lost)
Thanks for all the great info. So, all the above said, what would be a good reliable cam setup (cam, springs, etc.) that would maintain near stock reliability and make a good 40-60rwhp more?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
From: Naperville, IL. USA
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (QUIKAG)
do a search on Heads + cam and you'll find a plethora of info.
Most importantly talk to several reputable tuners like Nate and MattG and others. There is so much variability depending on what you want. Peak dyno numbers show up differently in real-life driving than lower numbers which may have a flatter curve. For me, it's the area underneath the curve, drivability, as well as no tolerance for stalling under any condition (don't mind a little lope). I don't visit the strip very often so my application is mostly for the street. I'm not exactly looking to gain a few extra rwhp at the cost of keeping my motor spinning at the top of the rev band the majority of the time. Also for me, I did not want to do all this H&C work to only gain 40 rwhp. I'm looking (hoping) for at least 70 rwhp! :eek:
good luck and remember... think overall package. :seeya
Most importantly talk to several reputable tuners like Nate and MattG and others. There is so much variability depending on what you want. Peak dyno numbers show up differently in real-life driving than lower numbers which may have a flatter curve. For me, it's the area underneath the curve, drivability, as well as no tolerance for stalling under any condition (don't mind a little lope). I don't visit the strip very often so my application is mostly for the street. I'm not exactly looking to gain a few extra rwhp at the cost of keeping my motor spinning at the top of the rev band the majority of the time. Also for me, I did not want to do all this H&C work to only gain 40 rwhp. I'm looking (hoping) for at least 70 rwhp! :eek:
good luck and remember... think overall package. :seeya
Team Owner
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 25,344
Likes: 222
From: Frisco, TX
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (ModifiedC5)
do a search on Heads + cam and you'll find a plethora of info.
So, I'll let this response be a bump b/c I too would certainly like to see if there's some suggestions for moderate and hopefully highly reliable set-ups. :seeya
[Modified by SteveL2, 9:13 AM 11/6/2002]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 51
From: New Milford CT
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (QUIKAG)
To achieve the same goals as you, I am going with stock 2002 Z06 heads and springs (ever hear of a stock spring breaking?).
"Mild" .220/.553/114 cam, (stock 2002 Z06 is almost the same as this at ..218/.551/117.5). (For this comparison I used the biggest numbers from both exhaust or intake on the stock Z06).
I am also going with FLP's and ASP underdrivepulley.
I will tell you how it works out intially, later this month. I intend to drive the car 100,000 miles with this set-up.
"Mild" .220/.553/114 cam, (stock 2002 Z06 is almost the same as this at ..218/.551/117.5). (For this comparison I used the biggest numbers from both exhaust or intake on the stock Z06).
I am also going with FLP's and ASP underdrivepulley.
I will tell you how it works out intially, later this month. I intend to drive the car 100,000 miles with this set-up.
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Verdad Gallardo
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 14,263
Likes: 1
From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (CJS)
IMHO, if you get properly matched goods, and allow the car (valve springs) warm up every time you start it, BEFORE ya hammer on it, you should be OK.....
as you know, I have both my cars cammed and springed and retainered and pushrodded and one with headwork....
i have had NO problems with the valvetrains of EITHER.....and I beat on both of them :yesnod: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
since your car is NOT your daily driver, pic a cam, change ALL valvetrain components and enjoy that beyotch :)
disclaimer
i will not be held responsible when it breaks IF it breaks :)
:cheers: my Brutha :D
thanks
as you know, I have both my cars cammed and springed and retainered and pushrodded and one with headwork....
i have had NO problems with the valvetrains of EITHER.....and I beat on both of them :yesnod: :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:
since your car is NOT your daily driver, pic a cam, change ALL valvetrain components and enjoy that beyotch :)
disclaimer
i will not be held responsible when it breaks IF it breaks :)
:cheers: my Brutha :D
thanks
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,247
Likes: 0
From: Denver CO
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (Ram Air Tony)
From experience I say NO!!! I just broke a valve spring and am in the process of getiing a new engine. You will note from the sig. that the P1SC aside, the motor is stock. I thought I could get more longevity with a SC rhan H/C. We shall see.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
From: Central NJ
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (SilverStar)
Talk to someone who has a Cartek Heads/Cam package...quite a few of them are daily drivers, and no broken springs,etc. If you pick the right combination, you will have no reliability issues. :cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
From: Central NJ
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (2001 Red Coupe Bandit)
What happens when a spring breaks? Is it automatic doom for the engine?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,529
Likes: 1,943
From: Austin Texas
Re: Does installing a cam hurt long-term reliability and longevity? (QUIKAG)
My take:
If you build the engine with an eye towards matching the parts to the desired goal, AND THEN use the engine more like a regular engine is used--you will see no particular drop in engine life or reliability.
On the other hand, if you do not match the parts to the application OR run the snot out of the engine afterward--you won't reach the same reliability and lifetime as the stock engine.
I have seen SBC built up to 550 and 600 HP levels live at least 50,000 miles (so far). I have seen twin turbo Testarossa live 20,000 miles (so far). None of these gentlemen run the snot out of their cars, but do (occasionally) use all thats under the hood.
I have also seen a large number of cars get a cheapo workover to moderate-to-high HP levels. Some of these did not even survive brake-in. Others knocked lobs off the CAM, others lost 1 or more valves, and one threw a rod. Several lasted 20,000 miles. Many of these drivers did not follow any brake-in procedures and most did run the snot out of the car (and other silly testoterone induced antics).
If you build the engine with an eye towards matching the parts to the desired goal, AND THEN use the engine more like a regular engine is used--you will see no particular drop in engine life or reliability.
On the other hand, if you do not match the parts to the application OR run the snot out of the engine afterward--you won't reach the same reliability and lifetime as the stock engine.
I have seen SBC built up to 550 and 600 HP levels live at least 50,000 miles (so far). I have seen twin turbo Testarossa live 20,000 miles (so far). None of these gentlemen run the snot out of their cars, but do (occasionally) use all thats under the hood.
I have also seen a large number of cars get a cheapo workover to moderate-to-high HP levels. Some of these did not even survive brake-in. Others knocked lobs off the CAM, others lost 1 or more valves, and one threw a rod. Several lasted 20,000 miles. Many of these drivers did not follow any brake-in procedures and most did run the snot out of the car (and other silly testoterone induced antics).
