2003 Harmonic Balancer keeps slipping forward.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 40
From: Queens NY
2003 Harmonic Balancer keeps slipping forward.
Hello, I've been dealing with a frustrating harmonic balancer issue which had me use my local mechanic 3 times in an effort to get it right. The first time I purchased a balancer from summit (PowerBond 1117N) and ARP bolt, which lasted me about 2 years before squeaks and moving forward. Now I replaced with OEM and a new bolt as per my mechanic's suggestion and had to go twice, because the first install slipped forward about 2 weeks into driving. Now he put it on the third time and it is still slipping forward. He admits he can't get his hands on the tool that bolts to the starter to press it in but followed the procedure otherwise.
Do you guys think this is the reason it keeps slipping forward? Is there any other possible reason inside the engine that it won't hold?
Do you guys think this is the reason it keeps slipping forward? Is there any other possible reason inside the engine that it won't hold?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 343
From: Long Island New York
If you have an automatic and he states that he can't get the flywheel locking tool... He is not getting to the required torque needed for this.
I think it is time to find a new mechanic.
I did this myself with the parts you have with no issues.
I think it is time to find a new mechanic.
I did this myself with the parts you have with no issues.
Last edited by pjdbm; Feb 23, 2021 at 07:33 PM.
Drifting
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 490
From: Denver, NC
1) If he can't get the proper tool he is not a true professional. It's a simple tool that bolts to the block and holds the flywheel in place of the starter. If he is trying one of the many ways mentioned on the forum such as wrapping a belt or some other hokey work arounds he is not getting proper torque and/or risking damaging the new damper.
2) If you keep having it loosen up you're going to be buying a crank because eventually it's going to start spinning on the crank snout (if it hasn't already).
2) If you keep having it loosen up you're going to be buying a crank because eventually it's going to start spinning on the crank snout (if it hasn't already).
.
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From: Oregon
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 40
From: Queens NY
1) If he can't get the proper tool he is not a true professional. It's a simple tool that bolts to the block and holds the flywheel in place of the starter. If he is trying one of the many ways mentioned on the forum such as wrapping a belt or some other hokey work arounds he is not getting proper torque and/or risking damaging the new damper.
2) If you keep having it loosen up you're going to be buying a crank because eventually it's going to start spinning on the crank snout (if it hasn't already).
2) If you keep having it loosen up you're going to be buying a crank because eventually it's going to start spinning on the crank snout (if it hasn't already).
Drifting
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 490
From: Denver, NC
It's very simple. The crank must be held to achieve proper torque. People who hold the outer ring of the balancer don't understand the mechanics of the assembly.
The balancer is initially pulled onto the crank with a pulling tool to prevent damage to the threads in the crank snout - again ignore people who say "just use the old bolt".
It's a tight fit, but not so tight that it will not spin if the bolt comes loose. If the bolt is loose and the damper can spin on the crank, the more it spins, the more metal is removed from the crank. Best thing you can do is have someone who knows what they are looking at take it apart and assess it. If the interference fit is intact and damper runs true and it's not loose, pinning it might not be a bad idea if there are signs it has spun.
You really need a professional at this point to put eyes on it. If it keeps coming loose due to improper installation you are going to be fighting with him over the cost of a crank.
The balancer is initially pulled onto the crank with a pulling tool to prevent damage to the threads in the crank snout - again ignore people who say "just use the old bolt".
It's a tight fit, but not so tight that it will not spin if the bolt comes loose. If the bolt is loose and the damper can spin on the crank, the more it spins, the more metal is removed from the crank. Best thing you can do is have someone who knows what they are looking at take it apart and assess it. If the interference fit is intact and damper runs true and it's not loose, pinning it might not be a bad idea if there are signs it has spun.
You really need a professional at this point to put eyes on it. If it keeps coming loose due to improper installation you are going to be fighting with him over the cost of a crank.
Last edited by Ed Ramberger; Feb 23, 2021 at 08:05 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
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From: Queens NY
I visited my local shop this morning as they opened to have them look at it and I was told that instead of using a locking tool they took the starter off and spun the flywheel until they were able to lock it from the inside. I asked them about the procedure and they seem to have done it right, including using a new bolt and the correct procedure with torquing. I have a good long relationship with them so I will let them try to figure it out at the risk of causing more damage to the crank.
I see varying prices for a new crank from auto zone low endlto higher end examples. Assuming a stock engine, is there a difference between them?
I see varying prices for a new crank from auto zone low endlto higher end examples. Assuming a stock engine, is there a difference between them?
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,864
Likes: 4,667
I visited my local shop this morning as they opened to have them look at it and I was told that instead of using a locking tool they took the starter off and spun the flywheel until they were able to lock it from the inside. I asked them about the procedure and they seem to have done it right, including using a new bolt and the correct procedure with torquing. I have a good long relationship with them so I will let them try to figure it out at the risk of causing more damage to the crank.
I see varying prices for a new crank from auto zone low endlto higher end examples. Assuming a stock engine, is there a difference between them?
I see varying prices for a new crank from auto zone low endlto higher end examples. Assuming a stock engine, is there a difference between them?
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
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From: Queens NY
I wouldn't even THINK about a new crank!!! If the proper assembly and torque procedures won't keep it in place, I'd try some kind of pinning procedure,, and even loctite. I'd be damned if I would even think about yanking the motor and installing a new crank because my balancer moves. There has to be another way, and if I recall, the I.D. of the balancer is aluminum(?). If so, it will wear much quicker than the the much harder crankshaft. I'm with the other guys when they're saying find a different mechanic. If it does this again, have a pro measure the O.D. of the crank with a calibrated micrometer, and measure the I.D. of the balancer with a bore gauge. Then compare the readings with the GM specs. This just shouldn't ever become the degree of problem you're having!!
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Last edited by grinder11; Feb 25, 2021 at 10:17 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
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From: Western NY
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: South Western Ontario
Pin it for sure.
There are adhesives to fill a damaged interference fit like that.
Don't Lock-Tite a bolt into the crank. You won't be able to heat the crank snout enough to break the bond so instead you'll break the bolt off if it needs to be removed again. You could Lock-Tite a stud into the crank and then Lock-Tite the nut onto the stud because you can heat the nut to break the Lock-Tite bond.
There are adhesives to fill a damaged interference fit like that.
Don't Lock-Tite a bolt into the crank. You won't be able to heat the crank snout enough to break the bond so instead you'll break the bolt off if it needs to be removed again. You could Lock-Tite a stud into the crank and then Lock-Tite the nut onto the stud because you can heat the nut to break the Lock-Tite bond.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2018
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From: Salisbury, NC
I use Loctite Stud & Bearing Mount routinely to secure pullies to shafts that have no more than .010 - .015 clearance. It's part number 609 and is green in color. Subsequent pulley removals require heat to disassemble.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
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Pin it for sure.
There are adhesives to fill a damaged interference fit like that.
Don't Lock-Tite a bolt into the crank. You won't be able to heat the crank snout enough to break the bond so instead you'll break the bolt off if it needs to be removed again. You could Lock-Tite a stud into the crank and then Lock-Tite the nut onto the stud because you can heat the nut to break the Lock-Tite bond.
There are adhesives to fill a damaged interference fit like that.
Don't Lock-Tite a bolt into the crank. You won't be able to heat the crank snout enough to break the bond so instead you'll break the bolt off if it needs to be removed again. You could Lock-Tite a stud into the crank and then Lock-Tite the nut onto the stud because you can heat the nut to break the Lock-Tite bond.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 40
From: Queens NY
Picked it up last week again and I've been driving it every day. So far so good. They ended up redoing it by the book and made sure to torque it as good as they could. Keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't slide off this time. If it moves again I'm taking it to a corvette shop and doing whatever they tell me is necessary
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,367
Likes: 1,593
From: Western NY
Picked it up last week again and I've been driving it every day. So far so good. They ended up redoing it by the book and made sure to torque it as good as they could. Keeping my fingers crossed it doesn't slide off this time. If it moves again I'm taking it to a corvette shop and doing whatever they tell me is necessary
"As good as they could"?? What does that translate to, in ft./lbs.? And I hope that it doesn't come to that, as "doing whatever they tell me", might involve a new crankshaft.......
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 152
Likes: 40
From: Queens NY
they did recite recite the proper procedure when I questioned them. I wasn't using their words when I posted that message and to clarify, the first time the job was done they didn't use the proper flywheel locking tool but instead jammed it with a strong rod. When doing the final turn to spec on the bolt that rod could have warped or gave way so this time it was done all according to the service manual with the proper tools. Keeping my fingers crossed 🤞🏻
