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I'm having a problem with a P0410 code, (This is a '98 car) and it seems to be a different problem than everybody else has. Before I take it in to have it scanned, let me run this by the forum:
The air pump never runs on cold start, but runs will run intermittenly for a few seconds when the engine is up to temperature. When it does run, no air comes out of the pump because the pump solenoid doesn't open the valve to allow the air to flow.
I removed the air pump and bench tested both functions; all good. Hoses are clear.
The wiring between the fuse panel and the pump shows continuity on both circuits.
I replaced the pump anyway (also bench tested) with one with 29k on it.
Fuse #15 is good and the relays are new.
The SP122 splice pack is clean as new and is properly grounded.
I replaced the 02 sensors (Denso) as I thought that maybe they weren't reporting correctly.
Since the pump never runs on cold start and the solenoid never opens for flow it appears there is 2 problems here.
I'm not having this tuned out, so I respectfully ask that you don't offer this as a solution.
A couple of questions.
Which pump solenoid are you referring to? On the 01 and up cars there is a vacuum controlled valve on the out put of the AIR pump that allows for airflow to the exhaust manifolds. I am not aware of anything like this on the 98's. Can you provide pictures of where this solenoid is located? What do the oil and coolant temp gauges show on a cold start? If these are showing higher than ambient temp that could be an issue for the air pump not running.
The O2 sensors you installed may not work correctly with the car. Had a 98 that I worked on for a friend that we put in a set of Delphi O2 sensors and it just did not like them. Replaced with a pair of ACDelco sensors and all was good. The Delphi sensors did throw the codes for not switching fast enough.
A couple of questions.
Which pump solenoid are you referring to? On the 01 and up cars there is a vacuum controlled valve on the out put of the AIR pump that allows for airflow to the exhaust manifolds. I am not aware of anything like this on the 98's. Can you provide pictures of where this solenoid is located? What do the oil and coolant temp gauges show on a cold start? If these are showing higher than ambient temp that could be an issue for the air pump not running.
The O2 sensors you installed may not work correctly with the car. Had a 98 that I worked on for a friend that we put in a set of Delphi O2 sensors and it just did not like them. Replaced with a pair of ACDelco sensors and all was good. The Delphi sensors did throw the codes for not switching fast enough.
Gary
The solenoid that allows the air to flow is an integral part of the pump. The pump has 3 wires, 1 motor, 1 solenoid activation wire and a ground, no vacuum attached at all. 1 hose in from the air cleaner, 1 hose out to the cats.
I can't look at the temps right now since I had the car running a while ago.
I have the same problem P0410 problem with the new 02 sensors that I had with the old ones. Neither pair has given me codes.
What do you mean by “before I take it to have it scanned” ??…you already have a P0410 so why you having it scanned ??…without a bi directional scan tool it will be more difficult to diagnose…the pump runs on a cold startup but you have to figure out why no air is getting to the exhaust manifolds…you should have an AIR solenoid which is located above the PCM…you have to access it and see if you have at least power to it…the solenoid is ground side switched which means the PCM is supplying the ground when it runs its test…now you can jump pins 87 and 30 at the relay to allow the pump to run and if you can ground the solenoid ground wire instead of the PCM the air should flow to the exhaust manifolds…with a scan tool you can watch the O2 sensors go lean at least below 222 Mv…the short term fuel trims will increase telling you it’s operating fine…with the scan tool you can do an AIR test which checks everything with a touch of a button…you should also confirm you have vacuum at the solenoid...picture below…2 vacuum lines..one coming in and 1 going out…the one going out will open the shut off valve at the pump which then allows the air to flow.The DTC will not set at that initial startup…the car must be in closed loop, more than 25 MPH, and some other conditions !!
What do you mean by “before I take it to have it scanned” ??…you already have a P0410 so why you having it scanned ??…without a bi directional scan tool it will be more difficult to diagnose…the pump runs on a cold startup but you have to figure out why no air is getting to the exhaust manifolds…you should have an AIR solenoid which is located above the PCM…you have to access it and see if you have at least power to it…the solenoid is ground side switched which means the PCM is supplying the ground when it runs its test…now you can jump pins 87 and 30 at the relay to allow the pump to run and if you can ground the solenoid ground wire instead of the PCM the air should flow to the exhaust manifolds…with a scan tool you can watch the O2 sensors go lean at least below 222 Mv…the short term fuel trims will increase telling you it’s operating fine…with the scan tool you can do an AIR test which checks everything with a touch of a button…you should also confirm you have vacuum at the solenoid. The DTC will not set at that initial startup…the car must be in closed loop, more than 25 MPH, and some other conditions !!
When I said 'before I have it scanned' I should have said 'before I take it to the guy with the bi-directional scan tool'. This car ('98) has an air solenoid above the PCM? How does it connect to the air pump?
The only connection between the solenoid and the SOV is the vacuum line which is pictured below…that’s it !!…the guy you take it to should be watching the O2 sensors and short terms to make sure they respond correctly…they (O2’s) will normally go below 200mv…at least on my car anyway.
@C5 Diag the OP's car is a 98 which does not have the vacuum valve that the 01+ cars have. So his issue is a bit different.
@dmsog looks like you will need to get the volt meter out and measure the voltages on the power pin, control pin and check the ground for the air pump connector. One of those is not right and I don't have the 98 model year info to give you any more guidance.
@C5 Diag the OP's car is a 98 which does not have the vacuum valve that the 01+ cars have. So his issue is a bit different.
@dmsog looks like you will need to get the volt meter out and measure the voltages on the power pin, control pin and check the ground for the air pump connector. One of those is not right and I don't have the 98 model year info to give you any more guidance.
Gary
By vacuum valve do you mean the shut off valve (diverter valve) or the solenoid ??…I just found the 98 wiring schematic and yes it is a little different…it like there is no diverter valve and as soon as the pump comes on it injects the O2 into the manifold…I should start working on more 98’s !!
Also yesterday I was working on a members ‘97 who is smelling gas fumes in his garage…I got underneath and was checking the fuel system back there and I didn’t see the EVAP vent valve where it normally is on my C5..just looked at SI for a 97 and no reference to a vent valve…WTF ??…OP, strike any info I gave you for this AIR system…I’m an idiot !!
@C5 Diag the OP's car is a 98 which does not have the vacuum valve that the 01+ cars have. So his issue is a bit different.
@dmsog looks like you will need to get the volt meter out and measure the voltages on the power pin, control pin and check the ground for the air pump connector. One of those is not right and I don't have the 98 model year info to give you any more guidance.
Gary
The first sentence of my original post said the car was a '98 in bold letters.
I can make both functions of the pump work by supplying power to the terminals in the fuse panel. I'm still looking at it. It seems like neither function is being commanded on by the PCM.
I'd wait until you have the scan tool...there may be an "output control" where you can command the PCM to ground both the solenoid relay control and the air pump relay control...you would hook up a test light to B+ and probe circuit 421 for the solenoid relay and circuit 436 for the pump relay...if the PCM is grounding those circuits with the scan tool the test light will illuminate for each control relay when probing with the test light... if not either a broken wire possibly or a bad PCM or bad connection at the PCM...if the light does not work at the relay you have to test at the PCM to rule out a broken wire...you will need back probes for this...hopefully the guy with the scan tool has some.
I'd wait until you have the scan tool...there may be an "output control" where you can command the PCM to ground both the solenoid relay control and the air pump relay control...you would hook up a test light to B+ and probe circuit 421 for the solenoid relay and circuit 436 for the pump relay...if the PCM is grounding those circuits with the scan tool the test light will illuminate for each control relay when probing with the test light... if not either a broken wire possibly or a bad PCM or bad connection at the PCM...if the light does not work at the relay you have to test at the PCM to rule out a broken wire...you will need back probes for this...hopefully the guy with the scan tool has some.
I'm going to make an appointment for this problem today. I don't know when I'll be back with the results as this guy is ordinarily very busy so it may be awhile. Thanks -
Talking about P0410 codes, I have an 03 that's throwing this code. I pulled the hose from the air box that goes to the pump and on a cold start the pump is running, but it doesn't seem to have much suction. Is it possible that the pump isn't moving sufficient air? and I don't get the code immediately, it comes on after about 5 minutes of driving...
A Different P0410 Problem.....
