Rocker Trunnion Upgrades
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,956
Likes: 135
From: Maryland
I had Straub / Smith but did not like their manufacturing tolerance and sent them back. Straub blamed it on the rocker tolerance. I measured the rockers and there was significantly less variability than their bushings. Got Che and they fit perfect.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 242
From: NW Chicago
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15
After following this post, I had to look in my journal to see when I last did my springs, 10 years ago. Wow, how time fly's. Engine builder said every 3-4 years, cheap insurance if revving high a lot. I did the Comp trunnion kit at the time. So going to order up the CHE's, springs, plugs, wires, etc and put it on the to do list when warmer. Curious and can't wait to see if there's a wear pattern on the Comp trunnions like so many others had, 10 years will be a good test. I noticed the looseness of the comp trunnions in the support and had to hold back on the rocker to keep it aligned with the valve stem when tightening. I remember thinking this is insane. Never did it before, so didn't know the difference and there is. Might get some new rocker supports too, dirt cheap, incase the Comps did something to the originals, start fresh. I'll post up some pics in a month or two, if there's wear to see.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 242
From: NW Chicago
St. Jude Donor '12-'13-'14-'15
How did the BTR V2 fit in the rocker supports? Tight or wiggly like the Comps I have, probably original version. They even came with a set of different length rocker bolts that had to be used. The thing that worries me with the CHE's is what if the rocker casting is ugly, not a factor with the pressed in bearing or bushing. All I know is, it's time for the original Comps to be retired.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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The BTR V2 is a camshaft… Maybe he was referring to installing the BTR needle trunnions at the same time he installed the new V2 cam.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
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Ron, I don't know what grade of bronze CHE, Straub, etc, are using. But, if it's AMPCO 18 bronze, that's some mighty tough, hard bronze. When you try filing it, the file tries to slide on it with a mild "shriek." Endmills and carbide cutters make a Helluva racket. If they're using AMPCO 18, or pretty much any AMPCO grade, they should last a LONG time. Especially with the constant oil splash feed from the pushrods. My .02......
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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Ron, I don't know what grade of bronze CHE, Straub, etc, are using. But, if it's AMPCO 18 bronze, that's some mighty tough, hard bronze. When you try filing it, the file tries to slide on it with a mild "shriek." Endmills and carbide cutters make a Helluva racket. If they're using AMPCO 18, or pretty much any AMPCO grade, they should last a LONG time. Especially with the constant oil splash feed from the pushrods. My .02......
Pro
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 502
Likes: 193
From: Central Pennsylvania
Just to contribute here... I just installed a BTR kit in my LS6 Rockers. The trunions were very dirty and needed soaked in Acetone and cleaned with a brush. That kinda surprised me. The bearings were soaked in 5W-30 and installed correctly (I've done this before) with an Arbor Press. When I spin them they feel 'notchy' - not smooth at all. Also surprising. I guess I'll see what happens once it's all back up and running. My cam is a BTR Stage 3 PD Blower cam - BIG lift so they will get lots of exercise. I'm not taking them out and replacing them with Bronze.
Just giving my opinion here. FWIW
Just giving my opinion here. FWIW
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Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,449
Likes: 409
From: Portland OR
https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-pr...kit-tk002.html
They fit just fine in the supports.
Last edited by RonSSNova; Jan 21, 2022 at 06:45 PM.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 5
From: Jefferson Maryland
I am picking up parts to upgrade for a super charger install and a trunnion upgrade is one of them. I am leaning towards the CHE, but was curious if anyone has any experience with the BTR LS1 Shaft Rocker Kit?
https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ls...ocker-kit.html
https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-ls...ocker-kit.html
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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Rocker trunions, not a cam.
https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-pr...kit-tk002.html
They fit just fine in the supports.
https://briantooleyracing.com/btr-pr...kit-tk002.html
They fit just fine in the supports.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 87,375
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From: Western NY
I might have gone with the CHE trunnions, but at the time I was going through this, CHE only offered an "exchange program", where you sent your rockers to them, and they installed their kit, and then sent the rockers back. Why didn't I go with this? A) it was a little "pricey", I seem to recall $300, possibly a little more; B) it would have meant the car being "down" for an extended period of time, and C) I don't know if it's was a valid concern, but on the possibility that rockers and valve tips establish a "wear pattern", I wanted my OE rockers to remain in their original positions.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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BTR TK002 Trunnion Kit
Impressive! This second version of the BTR roller trunnion has some great features, including higher grade of steel, oiling holes drilled in the trunnion body, and end washers covered by HD snap rings.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,049
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From: USA
I'm just about to start a valvetrain refresh on my car. Previously installed the Comp Cam trunnions some years ago, but with all the issues and failures I decided to buy the BTR V2 "TK002" kit and replace them while I was there already, doing springs and pushrods and whatnot. Seems to have only good reports so far, crossing my fingers.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: South Florida
I want to believe that there is a 'upgrade' available.
However, I am sitting on 620rwhp with .550 lift and OEM rockers that have over 200,000 miles on them, with 35,000 of those miles at 500-600rwhp.
And its a little hard to reach in and change a part that seems to be working fine...
I might try to keep using the OEM units just protect them < 6200rpm and < .580 lift might do the trick
Big issue here with these type of upgrades and failures is, once you start finding metal in the pan that could be the end of the engine permanently. No coming back from metal splattered all over the insides IMO. Whether a factory rocker fails or an aftermarket fails, end result could the same.
Bronze scares me a little but I like the kit that includes new bolts and anything with new rocker materials seems it would be 'okay' or at least give an edge over the factory stuff. Still, I've seen 1000rwhp on the OEM rockers. Just always a question of longevity. Not everybody reports or understands the root cause of a failure and such. I want to believe the 'weak cam' (slow ramp & low lift) will protect them. For reference I used TFS-30602001 which has a very slow ramp rate
However, I am sitting on 620rwhp with .550 lift and OEM rockers that have over 200,000 miles on them, with 35,000 of those miles at 500-600rwhp.
And its a little hard to reach in and change a part that seems to be working fine...
I might try to keep using the OEM units just protect them < 6200rpm and < .580 lift might do the trick
Big issue here with these type of upgrades and failures is, once you start finding metal in the pan that could be the end of the engine permanently. No coming back from metal splattered all over the insides IMO. Whether a factory rocker fails or an aftermarket fails, end result could the same.
Bronze scares me a little but I like the kit that includes new bolts and anything with new rocker materials seems it would be 'okay' or at least give an edge over the factory stuff. Still, I've seen 1000rwhp on the OEM rockers. Just always a question of longevity. Not everybody reports or understands the root cause of a failure and such. I want to believe the 'weak cam' (slow ramp & low lift) will protect them. For reference I used TFS-30602001 which has a very slow ramp rate
Last edited by Kingtal0n; Mar 4, 2022 at 10:52 AM.
Race Director
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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I'm just about to start a valvetrain refresh on my car. Previously installed the Comp Cam trunnions some years ago, but with all the issues and failures I decided to buy the BTR V2 "TK002" kit and replace them while I was there already, doing springs and pushrods and whatnot. Seems to have only good reports so far, crossing my fingers.
The TK002 looks like a very well thought out kit. BTR has definitely gone beyond their first design, and ahead of the Comp needle trunnions. Also, now that it’s become evident the bushing styles are more sensitive to oiling than the needles, it’s looking even better for the BTR design.
One of the issues brought up on the comp rollers was the diameter of the trunnions not fitting snug in the the trunnion stands. Might be worth a verification.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,449
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From: Portland OR
I’ve not heard of issues with BTR’s first kit. I installed one in my buddy's turbo 6.0. It was different from the Comp kit.
It’s a little hard to pull a rocker and check. The needles fall out.
The V2 kit with the hardened race makes them just like any typical roller rocker. Should last a long time.
It will be interesting to see how all these bronze bushed rockers hold up over the long haul.
It’s a little hard to pull a rocker and check. The needles fall out.
The V2 kit with the hardened race makes them just like any typical roller rocker. Should last a long time.
It will be interesting to see how all these bronze bushed rockers hold up over the long haul.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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I’ve not heard of issues with BTR’s first kit. I installed one in my buddy's turbo 6.0. It was different from the Comp kit.
It’s a little hard to pull a rocker and check. The needles fall out.
The V2 kit with the hardened race makes them just like any typical roller rocker. Should last a long time.
It will be interesting to see how all these bronze bushed rockers hold up over the long haul.
It’s a little hard to pull a rocker and check. The needles fall out.
The V2 kit with the hardened race makes them just like any typical roller rocker. Should last a long time.
It will be interesting to see how all these bronze bushed rockers hold up over the long haul.
From the BTR website:
“The V1 kits have stood up to an enormous amount of abuse, but we decided to upgrade them to a pressed inner race comprised of 52100 heat treated bearing steel, over the more commonly used 8620 carburized steel found in our V1 kits and many OEM applications. Additionally, these feature a self oiling axle with priority feeding to the trunnion itself.”
Evidently, BTR is putting time and money into bringing a higher standard with these trunnion upgrades.
Last edited by vette4fl; Mar 6, 2022 at 07:39 PM.