Just cam & intake! Without heads?
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Broken Arrow Okla
Just cam & intake! Without heads?
:rolleyes: I am thinking about upgrading my cam and intake without changing the heads. What would be the differnce in HP with a cam ,intake (ls6) with or without heads. I know there is a differnce in cost!!! What I've seen on the board and heard from friends it's the differnce of about 20 HP?? I am looking to get around 400hp to the rear?? What do you guys think?? My list of mods - FLP (no cats), Borla, Yank 3200, Halteck Tric, Ed Wright Prgm. (315 axle) Thanks for any info!
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 184
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From: Salisbury NC
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (bbjohn97)
It is a comp custom grind. 224/228 568/571 112 lsa. I still have stock heads. Other mods are k&n fipk, flp headers w/o cats, and flowmasters. I will be getting a ls6 intake soon and some tuning done. My car dynoed right after the cam at 361 hp and 367 tq. That was on a different dyno than I had been using though. I did the cam myself. Check out ls1howto.com. There is a lot of good info on there for working on your own car. I am sure the car is making more power now than it did on the dyno. It feels a lot stronger now that I have been driving it a while. A good tune will help some also. If you are plannig on keeping stock heads you may not want that big of a cam. I plan on doing heads soon and a 100 shot and that is what someone at comp cams reccomended for me to try. Good luck and have fun modding your car
[Modified by Nick Williams, 5:41 AM 1/6/2003]
[Modified by Nick Williams, 5:41 AM 1/6/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (bbjohn97)
bbjohn97, Contact the Vettedoctors they have a cam that might interest you. Forum member "Redgar" is running this cam, his car is an A4 that is putting down 385 RWHP thru stock cats. He has STOCK HEADS, he is also still running the stock LS1 intake manifold with the stock pulley. He has run back to back 11.6s @ 115 MPH with 3.42 gears. Truely awesome performance IMHO.
It will be VERY difficult if not impossible to get to 400 RWHP with an A4 with stock heads. If you want better performance I would go to 3.42 or better yet 3.73 gears. However your dyno readings will be lower with the bigger gears.
98 A4
Donaldson Blackwing
Cartek Stage 2 Heads
Cartek M Cam
LS6 Inatke
TPIS Headers
Underdrive Pulley
Comp Push Rods
Borla Exhaust
B&M Trans Cooler
ST3500
3.73 Gears
172 t.stat
[Modified by Mitch C, 12:26 PM 1/6/2003]
It will be VERY difficult if not impossible to get to 400 RWHP with an A4 with stock heads. If you want better performance I would go to 3.42 or better yet 3.73 gears. However your dyno readings will be lower with the bigger gears.
98 A4
Donaldson Blackwing
Cartek Stage 2 Heads
Cartek M Cam
LS6 Inatke
TPIS Headers
Underdrive Pulley
Comp Push Rods
Borla Exhaust
B&M Trans Cooler
ST3500
3.73 Gears
172 t.stat
[Modified by Mitch C, 12:26 PM 1/6/2003]
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (bbjohn97)
Stock LS1 heads are very good as stock heads go. Whether ported heads are worth $2000.00+ in some cases for Stage 2 heads depends on what you want to do with your car. If you plan on racing your car alot or you just want to get the last bit of HP out of your engine then they are worth it. But if you can be satisfied with 20-30 less RWHP then maybe they aren't. Judging by "Redgars" performance(11.6s @ 115 MPH) you can have a great running car without them. Check over on the LS1Tech web site alot of the F body guys are running LS1s with stock heads and pulling impressive numbers. You can find alot of very useful info by doing a search or posting over there. Good Luck!!!
[Modified by Mitch C, 1:34 AM 1/7/2003]
[Modified by Mitch C, 1:34 AM 1/7/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (CJS)
ThunderRacing 220/553/114 works for me on stock 2002 Z06 heads and springs. Go for it! Vettes need cams!
I was looking at the TR224/224 114 for my six speed with the FLP setup, a BlackWing, and the pulley. What do you think???
Thanks
:cheers:
[Modified by SideStep, 4:20 PM 1/7/2003]
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 32,545
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From: Lithia FL
Cruise-In II & IV Veteran
CI VI Drag Champ!
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (Mitch C)
Once again Mitch, thanks for the kind words.
I think a set of ported racing heads will net a bit more ET though. I would venture to guess more like .5 in ET reduction (to be conservative).
As to whether or not they are worth it, it really depends on your goals. For me, heads are not worth it right now because I don't see a need to go faster right now. So when I feel a need a .5 increase and can spend the bucks then I will get them.
It will be getting the LS6 intake in a few weeks though and hope that is worth .1 - .13 or so. Why? I want to stay in the 11's even when the weather is hot and humid.
Remeber all , all gains are not the same. I expect that much from the LS6 becasue of what I have already. LS6 alone I don't think will get you .05.
I think a set of ported racing heads will net a bit more ET though. I would venture to guess more like .5 in ET reduction (to be conservative).
As to whether or not they are worth it, it really depends on your goals. For me, heads are not worth it right now because I don't see a need to go faster right now. So when I feel a need a .5 increase and can spend the bucks then I will get them.
It will be getting the LS6 intake in a few weeks though and hope that is worth .1 - .13 or so. Why? I want to stay in the 11's even when the weather is hot and humid.
Remeber all , all gains are not the same. I expect that much from the LS6 becasue of what I have already. LS6 alone I don't think will get you .05.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,879
Likes: 157
From: Pleasanton CA
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (bbjohn97)
So heads is not a must, but how about cam, springs, retainers, etc and a pulley with stock headers. What kind of gains from that? Or are the headers an absolute must? I've heard the 2001+ headers flow really well. Plus, headers are $$$$$.
Any thoughts?
Any thoughts?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 51
From: New Milford CT
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (SideStep)
SideStep, I think that the 224/114 is the best all around cam for the street right now. Other cams will make even more power, but all things considered that is the cam to get.
I did not get it only because I wanted to keep the stock valve springs, because I plan to drive mine 100,000 miles with only routine maintenance.
With the 224/114 cam you will need to use heavier valve springs. Then it is advisable to change the springs out every 20,000 miles or so, to prevent breakage. So you will have a little more maintenance work is all.
I did not get it only because I wanted to keep the stock valve springs, because I plan to drive mine 100,000 miles with only routine maintenance.
With the 224/114 cam you will need to use heavier valve springs. Then it is advisable to change the springs out every 20,000 miles or so, to prevent breakage. So you will have a little more maintenance work is all.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (CJS)
SideStep, I think that the 224/114 is the best all around cam for the street right now. Other cams will make even more power, but all things considered that is the cam to get.
I did not get it only because I wanted to keep the stock valve springs, because I plan to drive mine 100,000 miles with only routine maintenance.
With the 224/114 cam you will need to use heavier valve springs. Then it is advisable to change the springs out every 20,000 miles or so, to prevent breakage. So you will have a little more maintenance work is all.
I did not get it only because I wanted to keep the stock valve springs, because I plan to drive mine 100,000 miles with only routine maintenance.
With the 224/114 cam you will need to use heavier valve springs. Then it is advisable to change the springs out every 20,000 miles or so, to prevent breakage. So you will have a little more maintenance work is all.
Thanks for the reply! I was looking at the Comp Cams "918" springs with titanium retainers. Do you have an opinion of these???
:cheers:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,372
Likes: 51
From: New Milford CT
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (SideStep)
SideStep, That is what I would use if I had to choose, it would be the 918's. Make sure they are recent manufacture with a tell tale paint stripe on them to identify them from the older possible bad batches.
I also looked at Manley springs, I would use them just as quick, but the 918's are very well known and available.
I also looked at Manley springs, I would use them just as quick, but the 918's are very well known and available.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (CJS)
SideStep, That is what I would use if I had to choose, it would be the 918's. Make sure they are recent manufacture with a tell tale paint stripe on them to identify them from the older possible bad batches.
I also looked at Manley springs, I would use them just as quick, but the 918's are very well known and available.
I also looked at Manley springs, I would use them just as quick, but the 918's are very well known and available.
:D :D :D
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,808
Likes: 19
From: Little Rock, AR
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (SideStep)
Hi CJS,
I was just wondering if you have any dyno numbers or time slips on your Vette. I'm looking at doing just a cam and pulley and I'm interested in the same cam that you have. Can you hear that the Vette has a cam. Have you passed emissions? I'm like you and I want to be able to go 100K with little or no maintenance. Any info on your cam would be much appriciated. Thanks! :chevy
I was just wondering if you have any dyno numbers or time slips on your Vette. I'm looking at doing just a cam and pulley and I'm interested in the same cam that you have. Can you hear that the Vette has a cam. Have you passed emissions? I'm like you and I want to be able to go 100K with little or no maintenance. Any info on your cam would be much appriciated. Thanks! :chevy
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 3
From: Davie Florida
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (SideStep)
Sidestep, The 918s are single springs if you break one serious damage to your engine can result. I had 918s and I swapped them for Rev 1116 dual springs, they will give you an extra margin of safety. With these dual springs no machining of the heads is needed.
98 A4
Donaldson Blackwing
Cartek Stage 2 Heads
Cartek M Cam
LS6 Intake
TPIS Headers
Underdrive Pulley
Borla Exhaust
Comp Push Rods
ST3500
3.73 Gears
B&M Trans Cooler
172 t.stat
[Modified by Mitch C, 10:06 AM 1/8/2003]
98 A4
Donaldson Blackwing
Cartek Stage 2 Heads
Cartek M Cam
LS6 Intake
TPIS Headers
Underdrive Pulley
Borla Exhaust
Comp Push Rods
ST3500
3.73 Gears
B&M Trans Cooler
172 t.stat
[Modified by Mitch C, 10:06 AM 1/8/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,200
Likes: 0
Re: Just cam & intake! Without heads? (Mitch C)
Sidestep, The 918s are single springs if you break one serious damage to your engine can result. I had 918s and I swapped them for Rev 1116 dual springs, they will give you an extra margin of safety. With these dual springs no machining of the heads is needed.
Thanks for the info. The only reason I was leaning towards the 918s was that I thought you HAD to machine the springs seats on the heads if you used the REV dual springs. What is the skinnny on this??? :confused:
Thanks
:cheers: