I'm fairly satisfied with how my car has run as is. I think it's time to throw in a bump stick.

I've decided MTI will do the work since I'm local, and they have 3 cam choices I'm considering:

C1 - 222/222 dur 566/566 lift 112 ls
C2 - 224/224 dur 581/581 lift 112 ls
X1 - 230/227 dur 591/571 lift 112 ls

Now, I'm really on a budget, so head work is out. This will be with the stock LS6 heads.

MTI indicated the C1 and C2 will work with the stock heads no problem. They indicated the X1 will work, but only after some modification to the stock head (an extra $450 of work as opposed to the c1 or c2 install).

One more thing, my car is not necessarily a daily driver, but I'd like to stay smog legal and run through the stock cats. I'm not too thrilled at the thought of my interior smelling like gas (except from me). MTI indicated all 3 cams can be setup to pass Texas sniffers.

I'd like to do the X1 for the most power, just not sure how much more power it's going to produce over the C2. 10hp might not be worth the extra $450 they want to make them work.

BTW, the car will have stainless works lt's and probably a pulley added when the cam goes in. All other mods are in the sig.

Any comments appreciated.

 

Definitely put in a reverse split cam - looks like Thunder racing and Speedtech both have reverse split cams that don't require extra work to your heads. If I were you, I'd go that route......

 

Hey Jeff,

I know you're gonna want the most perfomance in the long run so I'd say get the X1. It might not be worth the added cost at first glance but it's a lot more expensive to change cams down the road if you go with a set of heads at some point. The extra work is to get the heads to accept the right springs to do the job properly and reliably.

:cheers:

 

OliverM5,

Did you have PCM tuning done to get your 380rwhp, and if so who did it?

Thanks,
:cheers:


[Modified by SideStep, 9:31 PM 1/8/2003]

 

I am right around 400 hp and 390 tq w/ my C1 cam from MTI. I am very happy with it. Nice lope. I have no head work, but I do have FLP headers and an underdrive pulley.

 

thanks for the responses

corey, have you dynoed it with the cats on (I know you must have had them off at the dyno day because that thing was loud! :D ) ? Just wondering how much they sap.

 

I like my X1 and everyone I have talked to that owns any of the MTI cams are pretty happy with them.. I also think you answered your own quesition as to the X1 vs the C2 cam.

But IMO the X1 cam will definitely make you feel like you didn’t need to go any bigger.. :lol: its a beast! :yesnod:

:cheers:

 

I've ordered their stage II ls6 heads for my Z. hoping to get them in a week or so. I have their C1 cam sitting in my garage to be installed as soon as the heads arrive. I'm almost sure that I want to exchange it for the C2, suppose to drive about the same, but give you more power. Can't decide on 112lsa or 114 lsa. Good luck!! :cheers:

 

I am going to have Jayson re-tune and put the cats back on next week. I will re-dyno then with them on and report back. So, no I have not dynoed w/ cats as of yet. :jester

 

I got the 380 rwhp with no tuning and through the stock cats.....what's more impressive is the torque curve......all that with a baby 220/220 cam

 

[QUOTE]Hey Jeff,

I know you're gonna want the most perfomance in the long run so I'd say get the X1. It might not be worth the added cost at first glance but it's a lot more expensive to change cams down the road if you go with a set of heads at some point. The extra work is to get the heads to accept the right springs to do the job properly and reliably.

:iagree: X1 cam all the way as that CAM ROCKS!

MTI 427 Roadster

 

well, it's a done deal. I'm dropping the car off 1/21/03 for the install.

I've decided on the X1 (was there any doubt :D ). Just needed to think it through out loud. They (mti) even offered an X1 with a 114 ls to improve idle, but they said it would push the peak power 500 rpms up in the curve.

Not sure I like that. I think I'll live with the choppy idle and enjoy the greater mid range.

thanks again everyone :chevy

 

:cheers: You will be happy and I am interested to hear about your #s with stock heads.. :chevy

 

Oh no BLU your done! Youve got it! MODFEVER! 1000sands of $$$ for tenths of a second. I knew it wouldnt be long until you were really hooked. When the 422 comming? Warrenty what warrenty.

Welcome! You now know what drives fools like me. Hell i took a 4350lb tank into the low 11's just think what u cAn do!

 

TR's old man cam would be my first
or the SpeedTek F1 would be my second choice...

However, the x1 is almost identical to the F1 as far as specs go. Just get it tuned....

 

Dude, why are you putting the cats back on :confused: :D I may end up doing that also. I don't want to continually have to clay the rear of the C5.

 

You do not have to worry about snifers when you inspect you car.Just had my '00 coupe done and it passed with flying colors.All they do is hook up to the computer and test and if you throw codes or if there's any extremes with the computer you'll flunk,otherwise it's put on a new sticker and lets go.
Jerry :cheers: :cool: :cheers:

 

jrod, do you know the specs on the TR cam?

and yes, the F1 and X1 are practically identical:

x1 - 230/227 591/571 112
f1 - 230/226 591/569 112

 

http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/ultimateb...c;f=1;t=008209

Here is what he said about the cam...

Call me fickle.

I love going fast like the next guy. That's why I've been running the awesome Thunder Racing reverse split 230/224 111LSA cam for quite some time. It's tops for max power. But I gotta admit something, I sure love the way a stock ZO6 idles and runs. Super smooth idle, no shake, no stinky exhaust, but BIG power. My SS convertible is so nice, I figured I could try to find my own cam that would idle like stock, but still pull over 400 rwhp. Back in the old days on another board, we used to have discussions on what would make for an ideal "old man" car.

Here's what we were trying to achieve:
1 Quiet exhaust, but free flowing
2 Smooth shake free idle, but not wimpy
3 Gobs of torque down low plus great power up high
4 Emissions legal
5 Low underhood noise (stealthy)
6 Wife, girlfriend, police approved

I got a call a few weeks ago from Geoff at Thunder Racing. He said he felt like he had come up with the ultimate "sleeper" cam (or Old Man Cam as I like to call it). The key elements to making power everywhere while keeping a super smooth idle would require using all the latest technology and experience Thunder Racing has developed for the LS1. Here's the cam:

214/220, .600/.527, 115 LSA, -2 degrees ground in

Now look at the specs for a little bit. At first glance, it looks like a conventional "split duration" cam. It is and it isn't. The ramps on the intake are super, super fast. The total area on the intake is quite a bit bigger than the exhaust. In essense, this is really a "reverse split" cam in execution (just like the ones Thunder Racing has had so much success with). The big lift on the intake side allows my SAM ported heads to breathe, but the short duration and wide LSA keeps the idle smooth. Most people make the mistake of running a short duration cam (like a 214-218 cam) with several degrees of advance ground in. This is wrong. When you're running too small a cam, you want to close the intake valve later (to keep peak power up high). We accomplished this by having the cam ground 2 degrees retarded. This allowed the intake valve to close at the same exact time as my 230/224 111LSA cam. Guess what? I still was able to make peak power at 6200-6300, just like my 230/224 cam. Most 214 cams make peak power at 5700-5800 rpms. Not this one. The rwhp numbers stayed with the 230 cam all the way to 6400 rpms (where the 230 kept on pulling). By extending power to 6300, I make at least 10 rwhp over a 214 cam ground +4 degrees advanced. The 214 cam was done by 6500 rpms, but the low and mid range torque and hp matched or exceeded the 230/224 cam. It's like having your cake and eating it too. No small cam I've seen ever made this kind of power everywhere. It flat kicks butt. Idle is smooth. Torque down low is abundant. Pull to 6400 is incredible. I now shift at 6400 vs. 6700 with the 230 cam. Under hood noise is noticably less (since only half the valves have super fast ramps).

Thunder Racing is encouraged by the results. Next they want to install it in a 6 speed car. Keep in mind, this cam was made for MY combination. My heads flow well to .600 lift, so I could use this kind of lift to my benefit. Also, I run double springs. I'm afraid 918 springs aren't up to the task on these super fast intake lobes. Gas mileage has improved, no more stinky exhaust, got to lower idle speed from 900 to 800. Sounds completely stock. Can't ask for much more than that. Call it a 2002 ZO6 cam on steroids, haha.

--------------------
Patrick G (owned 13 different torque converters in 4 LS1 powered vehicles)
2001 Tahoe LT (latest project),5.3L, 3.42 posi, UPD air box, Yank Truck Thruster 3000 converter, Magnaflow 3" exhaust. ET with converter and HPP3 only 15.36 @ 89 mph, new times coming soon.
2002 Suburban LT (wife's car) stock for now.


-------
Colonel:

If you were wanting to lower the peak torque and hp points you could easily do that by advancing the cam 4 degrees, but that would give you less total hp and torque under the curve. Here's the thought process. A 214 cam is too small for a 346 with great heads. A 236 cam is too big. A 224 cam is just right. If a 224 is just right, it would run best with 0 advance. A 214 cam, being too small benefits by retarding the timing a few degrees. A 236 cam would benefit by running a few degrees advanced. The key is placing the intake closing point exactly where you want to make power. Close the intake later, you make peak power later and vice versa. I chose to mimic the intake closing point of the Thunder 230/224 111LSA cam, which is 45 degrees ABDC. The 2002 LS6 cam is 204/218 117.5 LSA with 2.5 degrees of retard ground in. It has an intake closing point of 42 degrees ABDC which is really late for a 204 @.050 cam, but that is why this little cam pulls to 6500. The Thunder Racing "Sleeper" cam makes more torque and hp at low and mid ranges than the TR230/224 cam, so I think that it would work incredibly well even with no gear!

Fenris:

Geoff cooked up some really fast ramps for the intake side of this cam. Yes, the rate of lift is quite a bit faster than even the Comp XE-R lobes. A 222/218 would make for an interesting old man cam. At 109 LSA with 0 advance, your intake closing point would be 40 degrees ABDC, making your peak hp around 5900-6000 rpms. That's a little lower than I like personally, but it may be alright for you. Not sure how clean the idle would be with 109 LSA but it would probably be torquey. Mine sounds just like stock. That's what I was looking for.


The reasons why this cam is so awesome:

1. The wide LSA flattens the torque curve, makes power down low very smooth and strong, plus cleans up the idle and emissions.
2. The short intake duration with lots of lift gives as much "open area" under the curve as most 224 cams with.560 lift. The short duration cleans up the idle and keeps the torque down low nice and high.
3. The lazy ramp on the exhaust is easier on the valvetrain, reducing under hood noise, plus the longer duration helps with overlap. The reduced area under the curve (compared to the intake) makes this cam more like a "reverse split" duration cam. The cam would be more like a 214/208 cam if the exhaust had fast ramps too, but the added duration of the slower ramps help with overlap (which is a benefit when running headers).
4. The intake closing point of 44 degrees ABDC allows the motor to make peak hp much higher than most comparable cams with 214 intake duration. This is key in making the big rwhp numbers. Most 214 cams have 114 LSA and are ground with 4 degrees of advance. This makes the intake closing point 37 degrees ABDC which will only allow the engine to pull to 5700-5800 rpms before the power peak starts to drop. The extra 7 degrees of intake opening make this cam 7-10 hp stronger than a normal 214 cam.

FWIW, we ran with the converter locked and unlocked. The Yank PT4000 converter only lost 9 rwhp unlocked...pretty awesome if you ask me. The dyno curves locked up showed outstanding low and mid-range torque and power compared to the 230/224 cam.


------

A question was asked:
So Patrick how do think this cam would perform in a "stock" 02 Z06? I'm pretty sure my heads are done by.550 lift, would it still matter. I don't think it's worth porting my stock heads as all I've seen is low lift #'s suffer after a port job. I'm just looking for cam that drives nice, passes emissions and gives a nice boost in power(10-15) with a just a cam and spring change. Add some headers and hopefully pick up some more. For a tiny cam that the Z has I have found that 6200 rpm as a shift point gives best performance-I don't really want to spin it too much more-how much can the stock valevtrain take before it floats?


The answer:

The optimum heads for THIS particular old man cam would be ones that flow well up to .600 lift. Stock heads would work, but ported heads would be better. No need for big valves. Stock valves or 2.02s will work just fine.

Springs are another matter. To get long life, you will need double springs like my Crane 99893 1.46" units. They will last a lot longer than 918 springs in my opinion. Programming will be required only to raise idle speed to 750 in drive/neutral (up from 550/650 stock) and raise shift points and rev limiter to take advantage of the abundant power up high.

 

This is why I though this cam was a good choice.

The short intake duration with lots of lift gives as much "open area" under the curve as most 224 cams with.560 lift. The short duration cleans up the idle and keeps the torque down low nice and high.


the MTI cam is 230/227 dur 591/571 112 lsa

Imagine a cam that makes almost the same power. With no lope... Its a good sleepercam. Also, I think this cam will work pretty decent with stock manifolds...

Its right at the limit of Stock heads, but in talks with Patrick G. He felt it would be a very, very good cam for a stock Z06.