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Car is not always starting. Starter replaced due to other issue.
When connecting wires, bypassing TDR, all staring ok.
When checking signal wires at TDR, ground is coming (from BCM) when key is turned to start. + 12 (from ignition ?) is not coming.
Ignition lock is new and replaced. Any idea what can be in between ? What wire should be checked at ignition to ensure that +12 is sent to TDR ?
12 volts from TDR comes from starter fuse 52 to TDR…check the fuse and if good you’ll have to troubleshoot the wiring…you should have 12 volts coming into at least one leg of the fuse from B+.
There is something between the Ignition switch and the TDR, that something is the Park/Neutral safety switch if your car is an automatic, or the clutch depressed safety switch if you have a standard.
12 volts from TDR comes from starter fuse 52 to TDR…check the fuse and if good you’ll have to troubleshoot the wiring…you should have 12 volts coming into at least one leg of the fuse from B+.
You are talking about "power" +12, which is ok... starter is starting when shortcutting.
I'm missing +12 at "managerial" +12, which is expected to come from ignition, I believe, here:
There is something between the Ignition switch and the TDR, that something is the Park/Neutral safety switch if your car is an automatic, or the clutch depressed safety switch if you have a standard.
Thanks.
Vehicle is auto.
Was thinking that Park/Neutral is coming from switch (located in shifter) to ignition lock via cable, so +12 should come (or not come, if issue is there) out of ignition block.
Just now noticed: as per scheme I see, there is a fuse (F14, 10A) between ignition and park/neutral switch, meaning that it can be tested. if +12 is coming to fuse, ignition is ok, switch is the cause; if +12 not coming to fuse - issue is with lock... will check now.
Unexpected measurement. When turning key to START, I'm getting ground at fuse F14... and nothing at C2 of TDR.
So, from ignition ground is coming instead of +12 and park/neutral switch is disconnected, while should be connected...
Any hint where this switch is located - to check on it (and exclude wiring issue) ?
You are talking about "power" +12, which is ok... starter is starting when shortcutting.
I'm missing +12 at "managerial" +12, which is expected to come from ignition, I believe, here:
Oh, so you are getting power to the load side of the relay then ??…when you said the BCM was grounding the relay I understood that to be the control side of the relay was good…power and ground…control side of the relay is fed from from clutch or PNP switch.
You will have to remove the shifter center console cover to access the switch , try starting the car in neutral or shifting to neutral and then shifting to Park forcibly and see if it will start. Hope this helps.
Unexpected measurement. When turning key to START, I'm getting ground at fuse F14... and nothing at C2 of TDR.
So, from ignition ground is coming instead of +12 and park/neutral switch is disconnected, while should be connected...
Any hint where this switch is located - to check on it (and exclude wiring issue) ?
Thanks !
Kind of not understanding when you are saying “I’m getting ground at F14”…you must mean you’re not getting power to F14…it’s just easier and simpler using a 12 volt test light to diagnose this…I’m assuming you are using a voltmeter instead.
You will have to remove the shifter center console cover to access the switch , try starting the car in neutral or shifting to neutral and then shifting to Park forcibly and see if it will start. Hope this helps.
hen shifting to park
Thanks !
Found it and it seems that issue is there.
(good that I'm rebuilding a shaft now, so have full access
Kind of not understanding when you are saying “I’m getting ground at F14”…you must mean you’re not getting power to F14…it’s just easier and simpler using a 12 volt test light to diagnose this…I’m assuming you are using a voltmeter instead.
Funniest thing that I'm having ground coming there when key is turned to START. Suppose, it is coning all the way from BCM via TDR, but not sure
PS: Using multitool, showing both - ground and +12...
Was meaning pins in connectors (one is 4 pin, another is 5 pin), but no need already - found mechanical damage, so will just replace the sensor...
Will post here in few days, if issue had been solved.
Assembled everything with new switch and - surprise - not working.
Found pins here:
So,
E PPL/WHT 1035 Starter Relay Feed - Coil ~~~~Goes ?Feed this with 12V from the ignition switch START position (this will then supply 12V to G 1737 when the transmission switch is in Park and Neutral.)
G YEL 1737 Transmission Mounted Neutral Safety Switch Output - Park/Neutral ~~~~Goes ?Connect this 12 V to work your starter motor relay, see start circuit diagram below. This is 12V out when ignition switch is in START position and trans switch is in Park or Neutral. This 12V comes from Pin E 1035 , when the transmission switch is in Park and Neutral.
Will be checking:
- If E (PPL/WHT) won't have +12 when key to START --> issue is in ignition / wire from ignition;
- If E will have + 12 and G (YEL) won't --> problem with switch (even new one can have issues);
- If both will have +12 (and still no +12 at relay) --> issue is with yellow wire from switch to relay.
If F14 has no power then the problem is in the ignition switch or the wire going to F14. It won't be the wiring after F14. You won't see 12V at the wires or the fuse if the ignition switch is bad.
Check the yellow wire right at the ignition switch. No, power it's the switch otherwise work towards the fuse block following the yellow wire.
If F14 has no power then the problem is in the ignition switch or the wire going to F14. It won't be the wiring after F14. You won't see 12V at the wires or the fuse if the ignition switch is bad.
Check the yellow wire right at the ignition switch. No, power it's the switch otherwise work towards the fuse block following the yellow wire.
Glad to see you posting again, Peter. Your an asset to the community, for sure!!
If F14 has no power then the problem is in the ignition switch or the wire going to F14. It won't be the wiring after F14. You won't see 12V at the wires or the fuse if the ignition switch is bad.
Check the yellow wire right at the ignition switch. No, power it's the switch otherwise work towards the fuse block following the yellow wire.
Done and thanks.
New ignition lock was the issue. Good that I bought 2 to save on delivery... replaced with another new, and all is working now.
Saying this, Park Neutral switch was in any case broken, so good that I replaced it too.
TDR relay question
