C5 Engine Question/Guidance
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2016
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C5 Engine Question/Guidance
Hello!
I have a 2003 Zo6 106k miles. Just started making a light ticking noise. Took it to the dealership and this is what they found:
I have a 2003 Zo6 106k miles. Just started making a light ticking noise. Took it to the dealership and this is what they found:
1. Originally thought it was the oil pump - replaced it. They noticed that the old pump had damage from metal.
- No metal fragments were found in the oil pan, but they said they saw some in the oil filter.
2. Started the car and the noise was still there. They then inspected the lifters.
- They notice one of the lifters is damaged and the cam is showing damage (they said the lifters are scored and the cam is worn).
The dealership claims the main bearings are all healthy looking. They didnt check the cam bearings but would do so one cam removal.
So I was hoping for some guidance, do i need to pull the entire engine and get a machine shop to redo the block? The floating metal pieces they claim they saw has me worried. I don't want to fix this and then in 3 months my entire engine goes kaput. This is my first car that I have had this type of engine issues on and not really sure what the right way to resolve this. I dont typically trust the dealership with their "this will fix it.", it took them 3 weeks to figure it out to be a lifter ( i don't have a good vette mechanic, otherwise i would use them).
Thanks in advance!
So I was hoping for some guidance, do i need to pull the entire engine and get a machine shop to redo the block? The floating metal pieces they claim they saw has me worried. I don't want to fix this and then in 3 months my entire engine goes kaput. This is my first car that I have had this type of engine issues on and not really sure what the right way to resolve this. I dont typically trust the dealership with their "this will fix it.", it took them 3 weeks to figure it out to be a lifter ( i don't have a good vette mechanic, otherwise i would use them).
Thanks in advance!
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 594
From: Prescott, Arizona
The only way to closely examine the cam and lifters is to first remove the heads to get access to the lifters. Did they do that? If so you must have a big bill at the dealer.
Many of us on the forum will tell you to go anywhere but the dealer for major service.
Many aluminum block LS engines make ticking noises, especially cold. That is often non serious cold piston slap or injector firing noise. My theory on this is that aluminum blocks transmit internal non serious noises better than cast iron blocks.
Mine has been making ticking noises for 40,000 miles, 1,400 of those miles and 25 days on road course race tracks, 119.000 miles total.
I would get a mechanic's stethoscope from Amazon and track down the ticking origin.
Many of us on the forum will tell you to go anywhere but the dealer for major service.
Many aluminum block LS engines make ticking noises, especially cold. That is often non serious cold piston slap or injector firing noise. My theory on this is that aluminum blocks transmit internal non serious noises better than cast iron blocks.
Mine has been making ticking noises for 40,000 miles, 1,400 of those miles and 25 days on road course race tracks, 119.000 miles total.
I would get a mechanic's stethoscope from Amazon and track down the ticking origin.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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Yea they said they took the heads off and said one lifter is bad. They actually did this one by themselves since they had me on the hook for other exploratory charges to find the dumb noise - but the bill is still high as it always is.
Trust me i dont like going to the dealership lol , there is no vette shop near me that is trustworthy.
My main concern is they say they found metal in the engine, now could that be from the failed lifter? And if so do I just need to replace the lifters and the cam? Or do i need to do an entire engine build? I stopped driving the car once the tick noise started.
Trust me i dont like going to the dealership lol , there is no vette shop near me that is trustworthy.
My main concern is they say they found metal in the engine, now could that be from the failed lifter? And if so do I just need to replace the lifters and the cam? Or do i need to do an entire engine build? I stopped driving the car once the tick noise started.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 547
Likes: 230
Yea they said they took the heads off and said one lifter is bad. They actually did this one by themselves since they had me on the hook for other exploratory charges to find the dumb noise - but the bill is still high as it always is.
Trust me i dont like going to the dealership lol , there is no vette shop near me that is trustworthy.
My main concern is they say they found metal in the engine, now could that be from the failed lifter? And if so do I just need to replace the lifters and the cam? Or do i need to do an entire engine build? I stopped driving the car once the tick noise started.
Trust me i dont like going to the dealership lol , there is no vette shop near me that is trustworthy.
My main concern is they say they found metal in the engine, now could that be from the failed lifter? And if so do I just need to replace the lifters and the cam? Or do i need to do an entire engine build? I stopped driving the car once the tick noise started.
Don't look at the cam bearings, because looking at them is what makes them go bad LOL!
If the damage looks isolated to the cam and lifter, then take it as an opportunity to put a slightly bigger cam in, replace the lifters and buckets, and button it back up. Maybe an LS6 cam, or a stage 1 upgrade, if you don't want to retune or upgrade other parts.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
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The ticking wasn't that bad, i originally thought it was something on the belt line with how faint it was. No idea on the amount of metal, they just said it was in the filter but none was found in the oil pans.
They didnt say how bad the damage was, just the cam was worn and cylinder one lifter was damaged. But they did claim that this was the source of the metal they found.
Oil pressure was normal. They did replace the oil pump since they thought that was the noise. They said the old pump had shown signs of wear and that it was likely to fail soon (what they claim).
I'm not having the dealership do the cam job since I can do it, and what they are quoting is almost as much as the car is worth. But I want to do the job right, and save my engine.
They didnt say how bad the damage was, just the cam was worn and cylinder one lifter was damaged. But they did claim that this was the source of the metal they found.
Oil pressure was normal. They did replace the oil pump since they thought that was the noise. They said the old pump had shown signs of wear and that it was likely to fail soon (what they claim).
I'm not having the dealership do the cam job since I can do it, and what they are quoting is almost as much as the car is worth. But I want to do the job right, and save my engine.
Zen Vet Master Level VII
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 1,173
From: Southlake, TX
Was your engine running poorly or just making a noise after 106k miles. Take it from me, if you chase every little oddity you will go broke.
The fact that the dealer said they found some metal (did they show you?) in the filter but not in the pan tells me that your engine internals are most likely still good. Too late, but I would have bet that a change to a different viscosity oil may have helped your noise.
Last edited by billschroeder5842; Apr 11, 2023 at 02:37 PM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2016
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No engine was running great, i just had it resealed for the oil pan leaks in December. The car has been babied and well taken care of.
Only reason i took it in, was i drove it Saturday no noise, then Monday when i drove again there was a noise. Honestly i thought it was the new water pump or something they touched that was the cause of the noise.
No they never showed me the metal, just told me about it. I do all my own oil changes and have never seen any metal in the filters or anything.
Only reason i took it in, was i drove it Saturday no noise, then Monday when i drove again there was a noise. Honestly i thought it was the new water pump or something they touched that was the cause of the noise.
No they never showed me the metal, just told me about it. I do all my own oil changes and have never seen any metal in the filters or anything.
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Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,793
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If it's at the dealer, they'll find absolutely EVERYTHING that could be replaced, trust me! This isn't limited to just the GM dealer, either. The C5 is one car that non mechanical and non electrical people should avoid. The LS1 and LS6 are known for ticking, clicking, and clacking, and majority of the time it's normal. The injectors are to blame for a lot of the clicking. How many miles on the engine? Is it stock? STOCK LS engines are known to go at least 300,000 miles without any problems. One became noteworthy recently for traveling 773,000 miles!!! One thing I think every car should have, and not just the C5, is a strong magnetic drain plug.
Last edited by grinder11; Apr 13, 2023 at 01:18 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,793
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In my mind it's a question of degree. How bad was the ticking? How much metal did they find in the filter? How badly are the cam and lifter damaged? Is the cam and lifter damage commensurate with the amount of metal in the filter, or did they find a lot more, which indicates more damage elsewhere in the engine? How was the oil pressure?
Don't look at the cam bearings, because looking at them is what makes them go bad LOL!
If the damage looks isolated to the cam and lifter, then take it as an opportunity to put a slightly bigger cam in, replace the lifters and buckets, and button it back up. Maybe an LS6 cam, or a stage 1 upgrade, if you don't want to retune or upgrade other parts.
Don't look at the cam bearings, because looking at them is what makes them go bad LOL!
If the damage looks isolated to the cam and lifter, then take it as an opportunity to put a slightly bigger cam in, replace the lifters and buckets, and button it back up. Maybe an LS6 cam, or a stage 1 upgrade, if you don't want to retune or upgrade other parts.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2021
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From: Florida
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If the cam is damaged, at all, it’s toast.
I realize they found lifter damage, but could they say definitively that the squeaking was from the pump? The noise sounds more like a pulley, water pump, fan motor, or maybe an alternator bearing.
That said, these dealers tend to use the parts dartboard until they stumble over a solution.
Where do you live?
I realize they found lifter damage, but could they say definitively that the squeaking was from the pump? The noise sounds more like a pulley, water pump, fan motor, or maybe an alternator bearing.
That said, these dealers tend to use the parts dartboard until they stumble over a solution.
Where do you live?
Running Guns & Moonshine
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,313
Likes: 7,037
From: CT
All this and it could just as well have been a bad coupler in the torque tube.
Vette techs.... Dealers.... None to be trusted in my very experienced opinion.
As they said above, you're on the hook now. And they'll charge you half the cost of a crate engine just to do exploratory work where they make up the bill. Ouch.
There's nothing we can really do to help you unless you're able to do the rest yourself.
Vette techs.... Dealers.... None to be trusted in my very experienced opinion.
As they said above, you're on the hook now. And they'll charge you half the cost of a crate engine just to do exploratory work where they make up the bill. Ouch.
There's nothing we can really do to help you unless you're able to do the rest yourself.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,150
Likes: 889
From: South Western Ontario
It doesn't sound great. But, without pictures of the lifter and cam we can't judge what's going on. But, not finding metal in the pan and the bearings all looking good are both good signs you could replace the cam, lifters, valve springs, timing chain, valve seals, etc and keep running it.
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 224
Likes: 150
I would want proof they removed the heads, that is a really big job for them to do on there own, I agree with others about dealerships, they just don't have any real mechanics anymore at dealerships, it's ashamed about the bill I'm sure it's large, may I ask how much is the bill so far
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,793
Likes: 4,614
A lot of modern mechanics are nothing more than parts changers, and they work at lots of places other than just the GM dealer. I'm not saying today's mechanics are all just parts changers, because thats not true. Some are damn good. But there are quite a few that just throw parts at the problem. When (and if) they finally fix it, they holler "Bullseye," and a few grand later the customer leaves with the car fixed.....I'd sure ask that all my replaced parts be returned to me. I believe this is a Federal law....
Running Guns & Moonshine
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,313
Likes: 7,037
From: CT
So worst case this guy had a bearing fail and needles are in the engine. Thorough magnet hunt would remove them. Some strong magnets in the pan would hold any which were missed.
But likely it is not a bearing failure. That small noise would not have been small. So the engine is clean minus any small grinds. And who knows how "bad" the cam itself is.
But the cam bearings are fine.
So a fresh cam, lifters, head gaskets and away he goes I should think.
Time to choose a nice performance cam for $390! Head gaskets are about $50 each unless they've gone up. Timing and water gaskets $60. Lifters.... I mean... LS7 are affordable, but I trust nothing GM for lifters or timing chains. Likewise with whichever head gasket you choose. I like the LS9 mls material.
Tune is going to be an inherent fee with a cam other than factory spec: $400 to $800
$220 - Morel Lifters
$390 - Cam of Your Choice (I put the mild one on the link)
$36 -
$60 - Install Gasket kit
$220 - New Crank Hub (if you haven't already)
$800 - High Estimate of Tune Expense
-------
$1,726 excluding any/all install labor.
Or just $926 as parts only without tune.
Also new oil and filter should be added in there.
But likely it is not a bearing failure. That small noise would not have been small. So the engine is clean minus any small grinds. And who knows how "bad" the cam itself is.
But the cam bearings are fine.
So a fresh cam, lifters, head gaskets and away he goes I should think.
Time to choose a nice performance cam for $390! Head gaskets are about $50 each unless they've gone up. Timing and water gaskets $60. Lifters.... I mean... LS7 are affordable, but I trust nothing GM for lifters or timing chains. Likewise with whichever head gasket you choose. I like the LS9 mls material.
Tune is going to be an inherent fee with a cam other than factory spec: $400 to $800
$220 - Morel Lifters
$390 - Cam of Your Choice (I put the mild one on the link)
$36 -
$60 - Install Gasket kit
$220 - New Crank Hub (if you haven't already)
$800 - High Estimate of Tune Expense
-------
$1,726 excluding any/all install labor.
Or just $926 as parts only without tune.
Also new oil and filter should be added in there.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,793
Likes: 4,614
If the cam is damaged, at all, it’s toast.
I realize they found lifter damage, but could they say definitively that the squeaking was from the pump? The noise sounds more like a pulley, water pump, fan motor, or maybe an alternator bearing.
That said, these dealers tend to use the parts dartboard until they stumble over a solution.
Where do you live?
I realize they found lifter damage, but could they say definitively that the squeaking was from the pump? The noise sounds more like a pulley, water pump, fan motor, or maybe an alternator bearing.
That said, these dealers tend to use the parts dartboard until they stumble over a solution.
Where do you live?