What advantage by running negative camber?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2002
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What advantage by running negative camber?
What are the advantages of running negative camber on the street...? Other than helping to stuff an oversized tired in a wheel well...I would guess at the least it hampers straight line acceleration a bit.,..
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Gilbert, AZ, USA
Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (MiamiDave)
Negative camber has NEVER been about wheelwell clearance, it's for lateral grip. When the car body leans, its control arm mounting points change in relation to each other, changing the wheel's angle. The negative camber results in an (ideally) flat optimal contact patch on the outboard loaded wheels when the car body leans. With uneven length control arms, camber changes at different points in the suspension's range. Ideally, when the suspension is compressed (such as the outboard suspension in cornering), camber increases to match the amount of vehicle lean, and decreases when suspension is unloaded (such as when the vehicle is in a straight line), giving good contact patch for both situations.
A car with zero negative camber or worse, positive camber, is very dangerous when cornering, especially on anything but perfectly smooth terrain.
Sam
A car with zero negative camber or worse, positive camber, is very dangerous when cornering, especially on anything but perfectly smooth terrain.
Sam
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (Sam Lin)
I've just heard that some big rim/tire combos stick out "depending on how much negative camber you run..." Which led to beleive that some guys do it for two reasons. Good to know either way :thumbs:
How much NC does the C5 run...?
How much NC does the C5 run...?
Pro
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Breese Illinois
Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (MiamiDave)
MiamiDave,
Don't know the exact number, but it's enough to make the tires wear out earlier. The svc mngr at my dealer brought this up to my club. If you don't autocross then getting rid of the NC will increase the life of your tires. However, that being said, I'm sure that the autocrossers will tell you that if you correct the NC you give up a little handling. But I don't autocross or race my car and I'm willing to do that to extend the life of my tires. I'm not a "pro" by any means but my car still handles very well and takes the corners on the blue-line and double letter roads just fine.
later,
Don't know the exact number, but it's enough to make the tires wear out earlier. The svc mngr at my dealer brought this up to my club. If you don't autocross then getting rid of the NC will increase the life of your tires. However, that being said, I'm sure that the autocrossers will tell you that if you correct the NC you give up a little handling. But I don't autocross or race my car and I'm willing to do that to extend the life of my tires. I'm not a "pro" by any means but my car still handles very well and takes the corners on the blue-line and double letter roads just fine.
later,
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Gilbert, AZ, USA
Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (Sam Lin)
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Sorry, it was late when I put up my last post. Uneven length control arm suspensions DECREASE camber when compressed, so when the car leans and compresses the suspension, the degree of lean should be compensated for by the decrease in camber.
I wouldn't recommend zero camber even on the street, as you'll end up with wear that looks like positive camber on the outer edge of the tires from cornering. A very conservative street setting would be .25 to .5 degree negative camber, zero toe. I believe stock Z06 is -1 or -1.5, but I'm really not sure on that one.
Camber also depends on tires and how much they deform under cornering. I very stiff tire won't need as much negative camber to keep a flat contact patch, while soft race rubber sometimes needs -3 or -4 degrees, a very obvious inward tilt.
I've got very little respect for anyone who runs more negative camber with the goal of clearing their fenderwells.
Sam :D :grouphug:
Sorry, it was late when I put up my last post. Uneven length control arm suspensions DECREASE camber when compressed, so when the car leans and compresses the suspension, the degree of lean should be compensated for by the decrease in camber.
I wouldn't recommend zero camber even on the street, as you'll end up with wear that looks like positive camber on the outer edge of the tires from cornering. A very conservative street setting would be .25 to .5 degree negative camber, zero toe. I believe stock Z06 is -1 or -1.5, but I'm really not sure on that one.
Camber also depends on tires and how much they deform under cornering. I very stiff tire won't need as much negative camber to keep a flat contact patch, while soft race rubber sometimes needs -3 or -4 degrees, a very obvious inward tilt.
I've got very little respect for anyone who runs more negative camber with the goal of clearing their fenderwells.
Sam :D :grouphug:
Thread Starter
Safety Car
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Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (Sam Lin)
Sam, this all started with my concern over running CCW 18 x11.5 rims out back with 335 pilots-and sight unseen was told they would stick out .25-.5 of an inch, depending on NC. I was just asking b/c I don't want them sticking out that much. I'll probably go with whatever Z06 specs are-I hustle in the car when in the clear, but not enough to warrant new rear skins every 20 months... :cheers:
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: FL
Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (MiamiDave)
Sam, this all started with my concern over running CCW 18 x11.5 rims out back with 335 pilots-and sight unseen was told they would stick out .25-.5 of an inch, depending on NC. I was just asking b/c I don't want them sticking out that much. I'll probably go with whatever Z06 specs are-I hustle in the car when in the clear, but not enough to warrant new rear skins every 20 months... :cheers:
Racer
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From: BLMVOR R160 [] HOCVOR R305 Switzerland BL
Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (Sam Lin)
Sam, hi,
...........I venture I could not have say it any better - you gotta hit the nail right on the spot with your excurse.
From personal experience I want to tell, I am very happy with my current setup which is : Car lowered to FT 26.57", RR 27.17", Poly Bushings, HOTCHKIS FT and RR along with the new style massive endlinks. The Camber setting is -1° at all four corners => Laser checked, Car partially loaded with Driver replacement weight and 3/4 fuel tanks. Tire pressure FT 32PSI RR 30PSI, and all 4 tires filled with Nitrogen.
This C5 now virtually runs under power as a GO-KART, and as highway highspeed-runs are not so much my special thing (but yes we could here, almost no speed limits on the D-Autobahn), I found my happiness and the ever present "big grin" through the twisties in those mountains here around.
Final physical resultant : negative Camber IS nice and very helpful indeed for great road-keeping manners !! The price MAY BE some supplementary tire-wear.
Thanks, Sam, for setting-up your point here (including your editing :yesnod: ).
REM : until actual, my tires (you won't believe it : still EMTs), do not show any specific signs of weird wear, neither front nor rear.
Joe. :seeya :seeya from still snowy Switzerland.
[Modified by SwissVette_Joe, 1:06 PM 2/11/2003]
...........I venture I could not have say it any better - you gotta hit the nail right on the spot with your excurse.
From personal experience I want to tell, I am very happy with my current setup which is : Car lowered to FT 26.57", RR 27.17", Poly Bushings, HOTCHKIS FT and RR along with the new style massive endlinks. The Camber setting is -1° at all four corners => Laser checked, Car partially loaded with Driver replacement weight and 3/4 fuel tanks. Tire pressure FT 32PSI RR 30PSI, and all 4 tires filled with Nitrogen.
This C5 now virtually runs under power as a GO-KART, and as highway highspeed-runs are not so much my special thing (but yes we could here, almost no speed limits on the D-Autobahn), I found my happiness and the ever present "big grin" through the twisties in those mountains here around.
Final physical resultant : negative Camber IS nice and very helpful indeed for great road-keeping manners !! The price MAY BE some supplementary tire-wear.
Thanks, Sam, for setting-up your point here (including your editing :yesnod: ).
REM : until actual, my tires (you won't believe it : still EMTs), do not show any specific signs of weird wear, neither front nor rear.
Joe. :seeya :seeya from still snowy Switzerland.
[Modified by SwissVette_Joe, 1:06 PM 2/11/2003]
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Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (MiamiDave)
Check out my thread on the subject in Auto-x and Roadracing, many people gave some very good advice.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=471185
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=471185
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
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Re: What advantage by running negative camber? (MiamiDave)
WOW :eek:
you should have told me to bring a helmet and try to get a :grouphug: going!!
you should have told me to bring a helmet and try to get a :grouphug: going!!
