Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install
I am in the middle of a H/C swap and just put the Cloyes crank gear on. I think I installed it correctly, but the instructions were not clear so I would like to verify.
I installed the crank gear with the long side facing the front of the car. Is this correct? I think when I installed it, I saw the timing mark on the front of the gear, but the oil pump drive seems to be blocking the view now (or I installed it backwards).
Thanks for the help.
I installed the crank gear with the long side facing the front of the car. Is this correct? I think when I installed it, I saw the timing mark on the front of the gear, but the oil pump drive seems to be blocking the view now (or I installed it backwards).
Thanks for the help.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 12,437
Likes: 919
From: CONCORD NC
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
You should not have the oil pump on until after all of the timing is totally finished. If the mark is not clearly visible, you have a problem.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (AllCammedUp)
AllCammedUp,
Thanks for the picture, mine looks just like that. The dot on the crank gear seems to be partially hidden by the oil pump drive. I was not sure if I had the gear backwards, as I though the dot should have been more visible.
Thanks for the picture, mine looks just like that. The dot on the crank gear seems to be partially hidden by the oil pump drive. I was not sure if I had the gear backwards, as I though the dot should have been more visible.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
OK guys, another problem just surfaced.
I got everything back installed and it turns out the A/C and the main pully do not line up right. It didn't look right, so I put the belt on to verify. It is off by about one 1/2 belt rib with the main pully sticking out too far. The belt partially hangs off the tensioner pulley.
I torqued the pulley down to 240 ft/lbs (not fun getting it off), so I assume the pulley went on as far as it could.
The only thing I could think of was the crank gear was not fully seated, but after pulling it all apart again, it does not appear that this is the case. There may have been a tiny gap, but it did not look like enough to make the pulleys line up.
The only other thing I can think of is I installed the cloyes oil pump drive backwards, but I don't see how this would allow the crank gear to go on further.
When I install the pulley, should it be dry or should I lube the crank snout with oil?
I am about to put the stock crank gear back on and try it all again. Any tips to help me align the pulleys would be appreciated.
I got everything back installed and it turns out the A/C and the main pully do not line up right. It didn't look right, so I put the belt on to verify. It is off by about one 1/2 belt rib with the main pully sticking out too far. The belt partially hangs off the tensioner pulley.
I torqued the pulley down to 240 ft/lbs (not fun getting it off), so I assume the pulley went on as far as it could.
The only thing I could think of was the crank gear was not fully seated, but after pulling it all apart again, it does not appear that this is the case. There may have been a tiny gap, but it did not look like enough to make the pulleys line up.
The only other thing I can think of is I installed the cloyes oil pump drive backwards, but I don't see how this would allow the crank gear to go on further.
When I install the pulley, should it be dry or should I lube the crank snout with oil?
I am about to put the stock crank gear back on and try it all again. Any tips to help me align the pulleys would be appreciated.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in the Mid West
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
Your are correct about the long end of the crank gear facing the front of the car. Make sure your crank gear dot and your cam gear dot are facing each other (this is very very important). Otherwise everything will be out of time and you are looking for trouble.
Did you have trouble installing the timing cover back on? It should just go right on flushed with no effort. Also, make sure that your crank gear is fully seated and the chain is inline with both gears. The oil pump goes on one way. If you look at the back of the pump you will see a hole that will need to line up with a hole on the block. And yes, do prime the new pump with fresh oil. If you can get some pics of your install and post them. We can give you a better explanation if we can see the install..
Did you have trouble installing the timing cover back on? It should just go right on flushed with no effort. Also, make sure that your crank gear is fully seated and the chain is inline with both gears. The oil pump goes on one way. If you look at the back of the pump you will see a hole that will need to line up with a hole on the block. And yes, do prime the new pump with fresh oil. If you can get some pics of your install and post them. We can give you a better explanation if we can see the install..
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (hrdtopv8)
hrdtopv8,
Thanks for the post.
The cloyes set has a 2 piece crank sprocket, one piece is the gear with a thin and thicker side, and the other piece is the oil pump drive. The thin side of the gear goes towards the engine as the timing marks are on the thicker side. Inside the oil pump drive, there are 2 grooves. One is thin and one is thick. By looking at the stock drive, it appears the thick side would go to the engine of the oil pump drive, so that is the way I installed it. Is this the correct way?
The timing cover went on perfect, got the cam and crank gears lined up perfect, installed the balancer, then noticed the balancer appeared to be off. I installed the belt, spun the engine a few times, and noticed the belt wasn't tracking right and was slightly falling off the tensioner pulley.
I will try to borrow a digital camera tomorrow so I can post some pictures.
I have a couple friends coming over tomorrow to try to help me out. Hopefully we can sort things out.
Thanks for the post.
The cloyes set has a 2 piece crank sprocket, one piece is the gear with a thin and thicker side, and the other piece is the oil pump drive. The thin side of the gear goes towards the engine as the timing marks are on the thicker side. Inside the oil pump drive, there are 2 grooves. One is thin and one is thick. By looking at the stock drive, it appears the thick side would go to the engine of the oil pump drive, so that is the way I installed it. Is this the correct way?
The timing cover went on perfect, got the cam and crank gears lined up perfect, installed the balancer, then noticed the balancer appeared to be off. I installed the belt, spun the engine a few times, and noticed the belt wasn't tracking right and was slightly falling off the tensioner pulley.
I will try to borrow a digital camera tomorrow so I can post some pictures.
I have a couple friends coming over tomorrow to try to help me out. Hopefully we can sort things out.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
All is well now, I decided I really did not need the adjustable timing set and went back to the stock gears with the stronger chain. Using the stock gear, I was able to seat the pulley perfectly.
I can't explain why the cloyes gear didn't work correctly, it appears to be identical to the stock one. I didn't want to try the cloyes again since I felt like I was on the verge of stipping the crank so I wanted to minimize any chance of tearing it up further.
Thanks for the replies.
I can't explain why the cloyes gear didn't work correctly, it appears to be identical to the stock one. I didn't want to try the cloyes again since I felt like I was on the verge of stipping the crank so I wanted to minimize any chance of tearing it up further.
Thanks for the replies.
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Drifting
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,580
Likes: 1
From: Shelbyville KY
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
Dang dude, I'm sorry to hear that the Cloyes didn't work out. My set worked perfectly and I've been really happy with it. I"m glad to hear that you were able to go back w/ the stock gears and get the project back on track. It's good that you were able to salvage and move forward.
One question... did you put both the stock cam and crank gears back on? Reason I ask is that the Cloyes is just a slight amount bigger and takes up more of the slack in the chain. I asked about using just one of the gears a while back and the concensus was to either go w/ both of the cloyes or both of the stock, but do not intermix them.
What chain did you use? I used a JWIS chain and it looks awesome. Much beefier than the stock chain.
BTW, whose heads and what cam did you put in?
One question... did you put both the stock cam and crank gears back on? Reason I ask is that the Cloyes is just a slight amount bigger and takes up more of the slack in the chain. I asked about using just one of the gears a while back and the concensus was to either go w/ both of the cloyes or both of the stock, but do not intermix them.
What chain did you use? I used a JWIS chain and it looks awesome. Much beefier than the stock chain.
BTW, whose heads and what cam did you put in?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
From: DFW tx
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (AllCammedUp)
I used both the stock crank gear and the stock cam gear. I did notice that the cloyes gears eliminated a lot more slack in the chain when going back to the stock gears.
I used the Reynold chain that came with the cloyes set. It is much beefier than the stock chain.
I think my problem with the pulley not seating properly was due to the inside of the crank being dirty, thus not allowing the pulley to be pulled on all the way. I don't think it had anything to do with the cloyes gear set. After cleaning out the crank, the pulley set fine with minimal effort required to seat it. I was surprised how much dirt was in there, so much that I am convinced it stopped the bolt from pulling on the pulley all the way. I kind of wish I tried using the cloyes gears, but after all the time it took to assemble, disassemble, assemble again, etc. I was just glad I got it back together right and didn't want to take it apart again.
I am using TEA stage 1.5 heads with the Thunder racing 224 cam. Hopefully I will hear it fire up today, once I figure out if the evap is connected right, I just have the accessories to put back on and the TB and air intake.
I used the Reynold chain that came with the cloyes set. It is much beefier than the stock chain.
I think my problem with the pulley not seating properly was due to the inside of the crank being dirty, thus not allowing the pulley to be pulled on all the way. I don't think it had anything to do with the cloyes gear set. After cleaning out the crank, the pulley set fine with minimal effort required to seat it. I was surprised how much dirt was in there, so much that I am convinced it stopped the bolt from pulling on the pulley all the way. I kind of wish I tried using the cloyes gears, but after all the time it took to assemble, disassemble, assemble again, etc. I was just glad I got it back together right and didn't want to take it apart again.
I am using TEA stage 1.5 heads with the Thunder racing 224 cam. Hopefully I will hear it fire up today, once I figure out if the evap is connected right, I just have the accessories to put back on and the TB and air intake.
Pro
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 685
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere in the Mid West
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (Jeff Jeff)
Before you start up the engine, first turn the key with the coil packs disconnected. Turn the key 3 times for 3 or 4 second bursts. It will be easier to hear anything out of the ordinary and help prime the oil pump. Then double check all your belts, pullies, and hoses. If everything looks fine then you can finally connect the packs and fire her up.. Good Luck!! :cheers:
Drifting
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 1,580
Likes: 1
From: Shelbyville KY
Re: Cloyes hex-adjust timing set install (hrdtopv8)
Good pick on the components. I went w/ the Stage 2 5.3L heads and a 'healthy' TR224 cam and w/ an assortment of other items, I put down 419 and 417 rwtq, so it's a good combo. I'm sure you'll really like how the car runs.
I also disconnected the fuel injector wiring clips from each injector so it wouldn't get fuel, as well. Basically just a 'dry' (no gas and no spark) rotation until the oil pump had time to prime itself. Once I fired it up, the oil pressure came up immediately.
Good luck!!
Before you start up the engine, first turn the key with the coil packs disconnected. Turn the key 3 times for 3 or 4 second bursts. It will be easier to hear anything out of the ordinary and help prime the oil pump. Then double check all your belts, pullies, and hoses. If everything looks fine then you can finally connect the packs and fire her up..
Good luck!!
