Upgrading to LS6 parts?
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Upgrading to LS6 parts?
Can a 2002 Ls1 engine accept LS6 heads as a direct bolt on w/o tuning? What gains would I get? (I'll tune soon enough, but just want to purchase a laptop and my own LS1Edit first)
Also, would I need Z06 valves, springs, etc to run LS6 heads?
Lastly, are 2001 LS6 and 2002+ LS6 valves, pistons, etc the same?
[Modified by BQuicksilver, 8:34 PM 8/24/2003]
Also, would I need Z06 valves, springs, etc to run LS6 heads?
Lastly, are 2001 LS6 and 2002+ LS6 valves, pistons, etc the same?
[Modified by BQuicksilver, 8:34 PM 8/24/2003]
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
The LS6 heads are a direct bolt on. Bang for the buck I think a set of ported LS1 or 5.3 heads would get more.
The 02+ heads have hollow lighter weight valves.
The 02+ heads have hollow lighter weight valves.
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
I don't think a set of unported LS6 heads would get you a power gain you would be happy with for the money invested. My guess would be 10rwhp over a set of LS1 heads with the cam you mentioned, if you were lucky. Not very much power considering what a set of LS6 castings, valves, springs, etc would cost.
Racer
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (93Polo)
The LS6 heads are a direct bolt on. Bang for the buck I think a set of ported LS1 or 5.3 heads would get more. The 02+ heads have hollow lighter weight valves.
If you are going to have the heads ported & polished anyway, does it really matter whether you start with LS1 heads vs. LS6 heads? And if it does matter, why???
Monk :flag :flag :flag
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (Monk)
Alot of tuner H/C packages are putting up some really good HP numbers, and I know that the guys porting the heads know alot more about it than I do. I do wonder though, what are the trade-offs being made to get these numbers? The trend nationwide is to more and more restrictive emmissions testing, and possible road-side checks.
I really do not think its the best idea to modify a $50,000 car with parts that may not pass testing a few years from now.
It seems to me that upgradeing a LS1 to an LS6 and using the factory parts and tune is a safe, fool proof way to getting a safe, legal 405HP engine. JMHO.
I really do not think its the best idea to modify a $50,000 car with parts that may not pass testing a few years from now.
It seems to me that upgradeing a LS1 to an LS6 and using the factory parts and tune is a safe, fool proof way to getting a safe, legal 405HP engine. JMHO.
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (MattG)
I don't think a set of unported LS6 heads would get you a power gain you would be happy with for the money invested. My guess would be 10rwhp over a set of LS1 heads with the cam you mentioned, if you were lucky. Not very much power considering what a set of LS6 castings, valves, springs, etc would cost.
BTW: I agree the cost/hp ratio is pretty poor here, but I'm just trying to see if putting off a port job would be feasable. I'd rather spend the cash on LS1Edit, a laptop, EFILive, etc right now.
[Modified by BQuicksilver, 7:44 PM 8/25/2003]
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
If your going to spend the money for new LS6 heads, check out the the GM Performance Parts LS6 CNC ported heads from SDPC. (LPE does the CNC machining to GM specs.)If you go with a mild cam, you should see better performance increases than the stock Z06 parts and still pass emissions testing
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
Matt must be having a bad day. Forum member CJS has stock ZO6 heads and a 220/220 .553/.553 114 cam with a the usual bolt ons and makes 401rwhp/383rwtq through a MN6.
The advantage of the lightweight valves is that combined with the stock Z06 springs, you can handle virtually any cam as long as the lift is not over 570. With other valves you would have to use stronger springs. The valves aren't cheap at about $40 a piece.
For a little under $2k, Scoggin Dickey has some LPE ported LS6 heads complete with Z06 springs and valves. Otherwise, bare LS6 (stock) are going to cost you about $1100.
The advantage of the lightweight valves is that combined with the stock Z06 springs, you can handle virtually any cam as long as the lift is not over 570. With other valves you would have to use stronger springs. The valves aren't cheap at about $40 a piece.
For a little under $2k, Scoggin Dickey has some LPE ported LS6 heads complete with Z06 springs and valves. Otherwise, bare LS6 (stock) are going to cost you about $1100.
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
I think the +10 rwhp comment was an opinion on LS6 heads only. Not LS6 heads + LS6 cam. I agree that with only the LS6 heads you would be looking at an approximate increase of 10 rwhp.
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (SFVetteman)
Bquicksilver,
I have 02 - 03 LS6 heads (stock) and GT2-3 cam have not dynoed it yet but according to LPE/21 Century Mussle cars, the combo is worth 40-50 hp (RWHP) over a stock LS1. I am send my heads off to LPE and get them CNC ported and polished with new 2.02 intakes/exhuast. If you can hold on a few weeks and want my valves,springs we can make a deal. BTW the (stock) LS6 heads bump the compression up to 10.50 vs 10.25.
v/r
THEYAV :chevy
I have 02 - 03 LS6 heads (stock) and GT2-3 cam have not dynoed it yet but according to LPE/21 Century Mussle cars, the combo is worth 40-50 hp (RWHP) over a stock LS1. I am send my heads off to LPE and get them CNC ported and polished with new 2.02 intakes/exhuast. If you can hold on a few weeks and want my valves,springs we can make a deal. BTW the (stock) LS6 heads bump the compression up to 10.50 vs 10.25.
v/r
THEYAV :chevy
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (The Yav)
Yav, IM me when they're don eand we'll talk. :cool:
So what could I expect from the LS6 heads and stealth cam?
Also, do you typically keep the Z06 valves with a port job? (i assume the Z vavles are the same size as the LS1 valves, just lighter)
So what could I expect from the LS6 heads and stealth cam?
Also, do you typically keep the Z06 valves with a port job? (i assume the Z vavles are the same size as the LS1 valves, just lighter)
Drifting
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
I just checked out the stealth cam. It has .581 lift and that would make more power than the .553 lift that I mentioned in my example. The only thing is you would not be able to use Z06 springs with it because of the lift.
Most of the time bigger valves are installed when you have your heads ported which means most of the time you give up the Z06 valves.
Stock LS6 heads are worth about 20-25rwhp by themselves.
[Modified by SFVetteman, 6:29 PM 8/25/2003]
Most of the time bigger valves are installed when you have your heads ported which means most of the time you give up the Z06 valves.
Stock LS6 heads are worth about 20-25rwhp by themselves.
[Modified by SFVetteman, 6:29 PM 8/25/2003]
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (The Yav)
The 10rwhp estimated gain I mentioned was for just the addition of LS6 heads to the LS1 Head/Stealth cam setup.
LS6 head castings are an improvement over LS1 heads, but nowhere near what a mildly ported set of Ls1 heads would get you.
If you are going to spend the money on the LS6 castings, you might as well go with the GM Performance LPE CNC LS6 heads that have been mentioned in this post. They would get you more power from the CNC port work that is done and the increased compression ratio. They are not that much more money than the bare stock ls6 castings.
Another option would be to just go with a Stage 1 LS1 head setup, or even the entry level ARE Street Eliminator heads which use stock LS6 valvetrain with mildly ported LS1 Castings.. Heads and Cam and Pushrods is only $1650.
[Modified by MattG, 11:00 PM 8/25/2003]
LS6 head castings are an improvement over LS1 heads, but nowhere near what a mildly ported set of Ls1 heads would get you.
If you are going to spend the money on the LS6 castings, you might as well go with the GM Performance LPE CNC LS6 heads that have been mentioned in this post. They would get you more power from the CNC port work that is done and the increased compression ratio. They are not that much more money than the bare stock ls6 castings.
Another option would be to just go with a Stage 1 LS1 head setup, or even the entry level ARE Street Eliminator heads which use stock LS6 valvetrain with mildly ported LS1 Castings.. Heads and Cam and Pushrods is only $1650.
[Modified by MattG, 11:00 PM 8/25/2003]
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (Louis @ LGM)
Louis, I'm really just asking the question mostly in the name of knowledge. I don't plan on the H/C until early next year sometime, but would like to start buying parts if I find good deals.
I think my #1 question right now is if the 2002+ Z06 springs and valves will work with ported heads?
I'm looking at LS6 heads mainly because I'll eventually get them ported, and know they are better heads to start with than the LS1 heads.
BTW: Thanks for the great replies SFVetteman! :cheers:
I think my #1 question right now is if the 2002+ Z06 springs and valves will work with ported heads?
I'm looking at LS6 heads mainly because I'll eventually get them ported, and know they are better heads to start with than the LS1 heads.
BTW: Thanks for the great replies SFVetteman! :cheers:
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (BQuicksilver)
Everything from the LS6 valvetrain will work fine with a set of mild ported heads, except, in my opinion, the springs. For the price of good aftermarket springs, I would avoid staying with the stock LS6 springs and go with something like the Comp 918s that can handle any cam size that you would end up going with.
You are doing the proper thing with all the research you are doing!! That is the key to getting your car to where you want it to be! :cheers:
You are doing the proper thing with all the research you are doing!! That is the key to getting your car to where you want it to be! :cheers:
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Re: Upgrading to LS6 parts? (MattG)
Thanks for the encouragement, Matt. :cheers:
2 Areas of Questions:
1) Is it important to 'match' springs precisely to your cam? EG not only getting a stiff enough spring to avoid float, but ALSO not getting too stiff of a spring. I assume lift is the main thing that determines what springs you get?
2) I'm still fuzzy as to what port/polish jobs would be okay with LS6 valves and what ones would not??? Furthermore, are stage 3 heads always better than stage 1 heads, even with a relatively mild cam like the stealth cam? Are the higher stage heads just as likely to take stock Z06 valves as the lower stage ones in general? (i understand that not all stage 1/2/3 heads are the same as others)
2 Areas of Questions:
1) Is it important to 'match' springs precisely to your cam? EG not only getting a stiff enough spring to avoid float, but ALSO not getting too stiff of a spring. I assume lift is the main thing that determines what springs you get?
2) I'm still fuzzy as to what port/polish jobs would be okay with LS6 valves and what ones would not??? Furthermore, are stage 3 heads always better than stage 1 heads, even with a relatively mild cam like the stealth cam? Are the higher stage heads just as likely to take stock Z06 valves as the lower stage ones in general? (i understand that not all stage 1/2/3 heads are the same as others)