Hey Soon 2B...

I would pass on the Weiand....it's not as porting friendly as you think. Have you seen one yet?....I was dissappointed. You would have to cut it yourself and figure out a way to piece it back together with everything lining up. The plate you remove to "port" it is useless....very small. I would be looking and following results on the new FAST Intake.

As far as the AFR head....I could tell you but then I would have to kill you....LOL

OK...OK....Fairly good departure from the current chamber design....Kinda looks like a figure eight in the chamber now....similar to a Yates head. This creates a double quench pad which is always a winner for atomization and making power. The intake port on the 205 has a MUCH higher short turn than stock LS6, with a real straight approach to the back of the valve due to its height. I've also lowered the roof as well....It was taller than it needed to be. Might pull it back a hair on the finished 225, but not much. Between the raised short turn and the lower roof height you would be amazed how small the cross-sectional area is right in front of the short turn....looks much smaller than the factory LS6 and you wouldn't think for a minute the head was capable of 300+ CFM, especially after looking at the stock LS6 port and knowing it was only capable of around 260CFM.
I seriously can't wait to get a set of these bolted on an engine...should be interesting....Want to see airflow theory turn into real world power!!

Regards,
Tony

 

All I can say is no need to be sorry for a lengthy post. I enjoy reading about these heads. And any info your willing to offer I am willing to read or listen about. :cheers:

 

Tony, I haven't had a chance to see a weiand apart, in person yet. I would have just presumed they would make the cut in a logical location that makes it easy for porting. but damn, thats bad news.

This FAST intake still sounds like smoke and mirrors to me. Generaly I'm a disbeliever until I see real numbers. And maybe part of me is wanting to believe working with an aluminum intake is easier/better, but only because thats where I have experience. vs this new fangled polymer stuff. heh.

 

I went to www.airflowresearch.com and don't see these on the website, I know it takes time for some of these updates but are these available now? and if so who do I talk to? thanks :cheers:

 

Hey "Run"

No....unfortunately they are not available yet. I think I had spoken about this somewhere in this post, but anyway, just to elaborate further.... We will start taking deposits for the new heads on Nov. 1st. It will basically be a first come/first serve kind of situation...it's the only "fair" way to handle what I'm sure will turn into a back-order kind of situation. We will hopefully start shipping them early to mid-December, although delays could push this into January 04 (hopefully not, and at this point I think we will be on schedule). We do plan on machining heads 24/7 as soon as the castings start rolling in the door from our foundry, and I'm sure we will get everyone handled in a reasonable amount of time. Will keep you guys in the loop on the good news or the bad news concerning the actual production runs and shipping ETA.

Thanks,
Tony M.

 

Thanks, I'll be :lurk: till then :cheers:


[Modified by runamuk, 4:49 PM 10/3/2003]

 

As far as the AFR head....I could tell you but then I would have to kill you....LOL

I seriously can't wait to get a set of these bolted on an engine...should be interesting....Want to see airflow theory turn into real world power!!
Regards,
Tony[/QUOTE]

TONY -This will be very interesting ,can't wait to see some #'S from the Dyno . AFR is very reputable and I'm sure You will have great results for us . :cheers:

 

Hey Tony, drop by Ls1tech and start spreading the word on these. Lots of folksare interested. The only issue has been with folks that are a bit skeptical based on the LT-1 offering. Some folks are a bit skeptical of the claims based upon the results seen with the AFR ported LT1 head. Just hoping you could help illuminate this subject a bit more. Here is the thread I started on it...
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showf...5&o=14&fpart=1

 

J-Rod....Hello

I certainly appreciate you forwarding my information to the LS1 Tech board....and to be honest with you I had anticipated and hoped someone would do that. I have also been following that board and knew at some point I would probably hop on and post a thing or two. To be very honest, it gets to be very time consuming and someone like myself that has a true passion for airflow, engine building, engine theory, POWER...lol....it's very easy to get "sucked in" and half your evening or weekend goes by in front of the computer screen. I figured anyone on the other boards following this information that had pressing questions, concerns, etc., would probably email me or contact me directly @ AFR.

Anyway, thanks again for "spreading the word" so to speak....I was going to post my thoughts on some other issues brought up recently so I guess now is as good a time as any. I had mentioned in a previous post that I thought the factory port design "left alot to be desired"....I feel that statement is a fairly accurate one for the following reasons. With almost identical port volumes, exact same entrance and exit locations and shapes, the new AFR head goes 75 CFM better than an LS1 casting, and 45 CFM better than an LS6 casting (with an even smaller runner!). Certainly the LS6 is a big improvement over the LS1, but anyone that has spent a fair amount of time with a grinder and a flowbench will tell you that those kinds of gains are impressive even if you had increased the volume of the port significantly. Look at the GM/LPE CNC head....287 CFM (on my equipment @ .600) and a whopping 243 cc's. My point is with the new AFR port shape and chamber design showing those kind of gains with virtually the same runner volume, factory location and entrance shape as the stock head, just how efficient are the factory castings?? Certainly you see where I'm coming from...

Now what I did not mean to insinuate is that ALL of the aftermarket "ported" factory castings leave alot to be desired...there are some good flowing heads out there....however, certainly I feel that had the same headporter/tuner started with the new AFR castings, even better results in headflow and ultimately horsepower would have more than likely been achieved. As I have also stated in a previous post, a head porter can only be as good as what he has to work with and in my opinion, working with the factory castings will undoubtedly "tie your hands" to some extent.

Also, I will "stick my neck out" and say that if the current "bar" for a big inch normally aspirated "LS" engine with ported factory heads is around 700 HP for arguments sake, than I do feel the more efficient AFR piece will raise that bar with some significance....Once again, keep an eye out for the "average" power and torque gains across the board...not just the potential increase in peak power. (Jeeez, I hope I'm right or there will be a Corvette "lynch mob" coming after me....lol)

Have more to add, but need to get back to work....J-Rod, if you will kindly pass this along to the LS1 Tech board, I would appreciate it, and if any of you have any questions or something to share, feel free to contact me by telephone or email here at AFR....

My email address is tony@airflowresearch.com Hopefully shortly, I will get signed up on the other board and say hello as well....till then feel free to contact me at AFR....thanks



Regards to all,

Tony Mamo

 

Tony, I completely understand. You can spend days posting if you want, at the expense of all else. Anyhow, Racer7088 (Erik) has a really good handle on things, so I always appreciate his input. Most folks are very interested in the AFR head. As I said, many folks came through the LT1 days and had ok, but perhaps less than spectacular results witht eh CNC ported LT1 heads. I think some folks felt the heads have plenty of potential, but perhaps were a bit lacking in the delivered state.

As for me, I skipped that whole generation (LT) of motors entirely. I do Gen I, and Gen III. So I have no constructive criticism either way.

Anyhow, I'd like to thank AFR for stepping up to the plate on this. I think many of us are excited about your upcoming innovations. Keep us posted.

 

Hello everyone...

A few people seem to be inquiring about info on the new heads....just thought I would drop in and bring the thread back to life.

J-Rod....I knew you would understand about the "posting thing".....I'm sure you have been "sucked up" by the computer and lost track of time as well!

Anyone needing more info, feel free to post away or contact me directly if you like...

Thanks,
Tony

 

I test some of your heads on my car if you'd like ....... :D

 

Tony,

Just bought two new six shelf steel racks that I need to fill up....

Better have them ready around PRI or I will have a surprise for you....

Ed :smash:

 

Tony,

What do you preliminary version heads flow @ .300, .400, and .500? What size valves?

 

Hey Guys...

I would prefer to quote actual finished production figures, however, I think you can expect to see low and midlift flow somewhat close to the following:

.200 lift 145 CFM

.300 lift 210 CFM

.400 lift 255 CFM

.500 lift 290 CFM

.550 lift 300 CFM


Take note of a few things....these figures are quoted from my larger bore fixture, NOT the smaller 3.910 bore of the stock shortblock, and also, I plan on experimenting with quite a few different valvejobs before going to production so some of these figures might end up higher, and some of them might end up lower. I wouldn't expect to see much more than a plus or minus 5 CFM figure in any case, and when I did place the cylinder head on a smaller bore fixture, I was happy to only see a fairly small drop in flow across the board.....the largest being the 8 CFM difference @ .600 (Prototype went 308 CFM on larger fixture, 300 CFM swapping to the 3.910 bore).

Latest word from my foundry is still "good", and based on that we are still expecting the "launch" to be sometime the later part of this year as I have previously described....keeping my fingers crossed!

Ed....buy more shelving!!!

Regards,
Tony Mamo

 

From WA2FAST:
I'm getting my info from the new Corvette Fever magazine, so take it FWIW.

I'm sure the posted flow figures below are from AFR's testing and not an independent source. However, I can say from experience that AFR seems fair when doing their testing, and their products are, quite honestly, second-to-none.

The new head is due out around Jan. '04. Price for the CNC-ported LS205 head (they will also have a 225 head which is designed for big-inch strokers/blower/turbo motors) will be in the $2800 range. However, there won't be a core charge necessary since these are NOT ported LS1/LS6 castings, but rather a completely new head.

A more affordable "as cast" (no CNC porting) will also be offered.

Combustion chamber volume will be either 66cc or 76cc.

The current LS6 head has a chamber of 64.45cc and the LS1 head is 66.6cc. So, to keep compression very close to the current setup, you'd want the 66cc chamber. The 76cc head would be good for a blower/turbo car not wanting to swap out pistons to get lower CR. My educated guess is that this head will lower CR to ~9.7:1. Not really low, but more manageable than bolting on a blower/turbo to a 10.5:1 CR motor.

*My hope is that the deck of these heads is thicker than the stock LS1/LS6 casting. I've learned that our heads do not have really thick decks and this can certainly contribute to lifting head gaskets under severe conditions (cylinder pressure).*

Another great thing is that while the AFR intake runner is only 205cc (smaller than the LS6's 211cc and a CNC ported LS6 head which is ~243cc) it will flow MORE than either of these AND since it can do it through a smaller port...guess what? Air velocity goes UP! Hello low, mid-range TQ! So this will be the best of both worlds. Better low-end TQ and more top-end HP.

Here are the flow #s:

INTAKE
Lift LS1 LS6 CNC LS6 AFR 205
.200 136 137 142 144
,300 196 188 209 208
.400 217 233 257 255
.500 224 260 283 287
.550 227 245 286 296
.600 230 245 287 302
.650 233 245 289 304

EXHAUST
Lift LS1 LS6 CNC LS6 AFR 205
.200 108 116 118 116
.300 145 153 156 170
.400 170 175 189 206
.500 186 193 220 221
.550 192 199 227 227
.600 198 200 231 232
.650 200 202 233 236

Again, looking at the figures (and this is the smaller 205 head), even if the #s are just = that of ported heads, remember that since they are flowing this well through a smaller port... efficiency is better and velocity is higher which = more power.

I am going to get in touch with AFR as soon as I can. I talked with Tony (the guy who develops/designs their heads) about 2 months ago and he has a C5 and was working on the R&D at the time.

 

Xmas wish-list: Let see, $2500 for heads, $500 for G5X3 cam, $2000 for LG Pro LT's, $900 for LSX Intake $500 for 90mm TB = $6400 for 460 rwhp and gobs of TQ! Don't forget my underdrive pulley... :cool: Seriously, I'm excited about the product also. :hurray:

 

Hmmm....

$500 for a shelf cam? I better start raising prices on my custom grinds! :blueangel:

Tony:
Already have the room, the money and the orders to get this rolling....
Now, about the delivery on the heads... :jester

Ed

 

I went to FTI's page, but they were all Mustangs. :eek: Seriously, that is what is so great about this forum. Information! I have learned so much from all who post here :thumbs: Now Ihave to look at an FTI cam. ;)

 

Hey...

I do the dang site work myself and have only so much time to get those things done.... :D Wait a bit I'm sure you'll see some C5 and F-Body things that'll spark your interest. Especially when I start tearing into the wife's new toy...

"What hun... Leave the 'vette alone? Yeah, OK...." :yesnod:

Ed