Need headers info
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 7
From: South Florida
Need headers info
Explain the effect of back pressure on valves, an engine, performance, and gas mileage? What does longtube verses shorties do for you? What about removing the cats or going to highflow cats? With any of these mods will fire shoot out my pipes? I've heard of this problem. Finally which are bolt on and which require welding?
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,838
Likes: 85
From: DFW Texas
Re: Need headers info (SpyRacing)
With headers you will not get much back pressure. The air flow is much greater there for giving you more hp. Gas mileage will be no different. If anything you would get a little more miles becauase the engine is running cooler due to better air flow. Going with no cats will also increase the air flow. The car will sound a little louder with out cats. All around the headers are going to help you out. Better for your engine, miles, hp. It's a good investment.
I suggest you go with LG motorsports True Long tube headers. They are the best on the market.
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/press_release.htm
I got them along with Corsa Pace car exhaust and it gave me an extra 54 hp. I got 343 at the rear now.
here is a vid and a dyno pic for you to look at.
http://www.socomclans.net/movies/dyno2.WMV
http://www.socomclans.net/images_x/dynopic.jpg
I suggest you go with LG motorsports True Long tube headers. They are the best on the market.
http://www.lgmotorsports.com/press_release.htm
I got them along with Corsa Pace car exhaust and it gave me an extra 54 hp. I got 343 at the rear now.
here is a vid and a dyno pic for you to look at.
http://www.socomclans.net/movies/dyno2.WMV
http://www.socomclans.net/images_x/dynopic.jpg
Premium Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 572
From: Dallas Tx
St. Jude Vendor Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Re: Need headers info (tekhombre)
I would agree that you should read. Then you will come to the conclusion that the 1 7/8 mid length headers and the 1 3/4" mid length headers either lose hp under the curve or lose low end torque.
It is true that a mid length header can give you a peak number. But how often are you at that peak on the street? Just getting a big number for the last 400 rpms can not make up the torque that our LG true Long tube headers give you below 5000 rpms.
Thanks
Lou Gigliotti
LGM
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 7
From: South Florida
Re: Need headers info (LG Motorsports)
Lou,
Talk to me about cats, no cats, or high flow cats. I was eyeing the full length tubes all the way back to where they attach to the catbacks. I have some Corsa's I'm happy with. Borla just didn't have a quad tip with resonators I liked.
Any Warranties? Price? I saw a wholesale price.
Talk to me about cats, no cats, or high flow cats. I was eyeing the full length tubes all the way back to where they attach to the catbacks. I have some Corsa's I'm happy with. Borla just didn't have a quad tip with resonators I liked.
Any Warranties? Price? I saw a wholesale price.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 483
Likes: 0
From: Austin Tx
Re: Need headers info (SpyRacing)
Explain the effect of back pressure on valves, an engine, performance, and gas mileage?
The first event occurs when the exhaust valve opens; exposing a low pressure gas in the headers to the high pressure gas just burned in the cylinder. The high pressure gas rushes out of the cylinder and down the header in the shape of a rapidly rising pressure and slowly falling pulse.
When this pulse reaches the collector, the pulse sees a low pressure and sends back a low pressure wave back up the header. The shape of this negative pressure wave is like the high pressure wave that formed it, but lower in intensity.
When this low pressure wave encounters the still open exhaust valve, it pulls residual mixture from the chamber, and if the intake valve is open, starts to pull mixture into the cylinder even before the piston starts dwonward. THis is event number 2.
Meanwhile back at the collector, the high pressure pulse has arrived at the other end of the collector and finds, well, a big wall with a little hole called the exhaust pipe. The high pressure pulse reflects off the end of the collector and sends a small positive pressure pulse back across the collector, and up the header pipe.
When this pulse arrives at the back side of the (still open) exhaust valve, ti pushes any mixture (pulled across the face of the combustion chamber by the negitive pulse) back into the combustion chamber. This is the third event headers connect.
The net result is that more mixture is put in the cylinder and the engine can make more TQ and thus HP.
What does longtube verses shorties do for you? What about removing the cats or going to highflow cats? With any of these mods will fire shoot out my pipes? I've heard of this problem. Finally which are bolt on and which require welding?
Cats interfere with the pressure waves in the header, reducing its effectiveness so you only get 20HP (+/-) from headers rather than 25 (also +/-). Cate essentially eliminate the third event. High flow cats just interfere less.
Unless the car is running excessively rich, none of the header options will shoot flames.
Headers may improve gas milage (efficiency) but often reduce milage because it changes the style of driving. Lazy drivers get it on just to hear the motor sing, and stay in the throttle more often. This should not be blamed on the headers, as it is not their fault.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,196
Likes: 0
From: Rockville Centre NY
Re: Need headers info (Mitch Alsup)
Explain the effect of back pressure on valves, an engine, performance, and gas mileage?
Headers connect three intervals in the valve timing of an engine. By connecting these events, more power can be extracted from the engine.
The first event occurs when the exhaust valve opens; exposing a low pressure gas in the headers to the high pressure gas just burned in the cylinder. The high pressure gas rushes out of the cylinder and down the header in the shape of a rapidly rising pressure and slowly falling pulse.
When this pulse reaches the collector, the pulse sees a low pressure and sends back a low pressure wave back up the header. The shape of this negative pressure wave is like the high pressure wave that formed it, but lower in intensity.
When this low pressure wave encounters the still open exhaust valve, it pulls residual mixture from the chamber, and if the intake valve is open, starts to pull mixture into the cylinder even before the piston starts dwonward. THis is event number 2.
Meanwhile back at the collector, the high pressure pulse has arrived at the other end of the collector and finds, well, a big wall with a little hole called the exhaust pipe. The high pressure pulse reflects off the end of the collector and sends a small positive pressure pulse back across the collector, and up the header pipe.
When this pulse arrives at the back side of the (still open) exhaust valve, ti pushes any mixture (pulled across the face of the combustion chamber by the negitive pulse) back into the combustion chamber. This is the third event headers connect.
The net result is that more mixture is put in the cylinder and the engine can make more TQ and thus HP.
What does longtube verses shorties do for you? What about removing the cats or going to highflow cats? With any of these mods will fire shoot out my pipes? I've heard of this problem. Finally which are bolt on and which require welding?
Shorties are just efficient manifolds, and are not worth the money. Go with real headers or leave it alone.
Cats interfere with the pressure waves in the header, reducing its effectiveness so you only get 20HP (+/-) from headers rather than 25 (also +/-). Cate essentially eliminate the third event. High flow cats just interfere less.
Unless the car is running excessively rich, none of the header options will shoot flames.
Headers may improve gas milage (efficiency) but often reduce milage because it changes the style of driving. Lazy drivers get it on just to hear the motor sing, and stay in the throttle more often. This should not be blamed on the headers, as it is not their fault.
Headers connect three intervals in the valve timing of an engine. By connecting these events, more power can be extracted from the engine.
The first event occurs when the exhaust valve opens; exposing a low pressure gas in the headers to the high pressure gas just burned in the cylinder. The high pressure gas rushes out of the cylinder and down the header in the shape of a rapidly rising pressure and slowly falling pulse.
When this pulse reaches the collector, the pulse sees a low pressure and sends back a low pressure wave back up the header. The shape of this negative pressure wave is like the high pressure wave that formed it, but lower in intensity.
When this low pressure wave encounters the still open exhaust valve, it pulls residual mixture from the chamber, and if the intake valve is open, starts to pull mixture into the cylinder even before the piston starts dwonward. THis is event number 2.
Meanwhile back at the collector, the high pressure pulse has arrived at the other end of the collector and finds, well, a big wall with a little hole called the exhaust pipe. The high pressure pulse reflects off the end of the collector and sends a small positive pressure pulse back across the collector, and up the header pipe.
When this pulse arrives at the back side of the (still open) exhaust valve, ti pushes any mixture (pulled across the face of the combustion chamber by the negitive pulse) back into the combustion chamber. This is the third event headers connect.
The net result is that more mixture is put in the cylinder and the engine can make more TQ and thus HP.
What does longtube verses shorties do for you? What about removing the cats or going to highflow cats? With any of these mods will fire shoot out my pipes? I've heard of this problem. Finally which are bolt on and which require welding?
Shorties are just efficient manifolds, and are not worth the money. Go with real headers or leave it alone.
Cats interfere with the pressure waves in the header, reducing its effectiveness so you only get 20HP (+/-) from headers rather than 25 (also +/-). Cate essentially eliminate the third event. High flow cats just interfere less.
Unless the car is running excessively rich, none of the header options will shoot flames.
Headers may improve gas milage (efficiency) but often reduce milage because it changes the style of driving. Lazy drivers get it on just to hear the motor sing, and stay in the throttle more often. This should not be blamed on the headers, as it is not their fault.
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 7
From: South Florida
Re: Need headers info (Mitch Alsup)
Thanks Mitch, that was the type of response that I was looking for. Now I understand the logic behind the headers.
That coupled with info above I think I'll shoot for LGMs, but I need to see the costs of putting them into the car. Hopefully, Lou, or one of his people, will send me some pricing info.
Thanks again
That coupled with info above I think I'll shoot for LGMs, but I need to see the costs of putting them into the car. Hopefully, Lou, or one of his people, will send me some pricing info.
Thanks again
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: His name is Tandy Dillen. Altruism is the last Frontier.
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St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Re: Need headers info (Mitch Alsup)
Mitch,
Thank you Sir, the next one's on me. :cheers:
That's the explanation I've been waiting for and a lucky sales person somewhere is about to score another commission as a result. :D
Question for you and the folks at LGM:
I took a Sawz-All to my baby last Saturday and installed GHL Bullets and Magnaflow X-Pipe, the first mod I've done that required a power-tool :D. The LGM's mentioned in the above URL run "right up to the original 2 bolt muffler flanges".
With that connection out of existance, will the LGM's accomodate the Magnaflow X-Pipe with just a couple of custom cuts and the clamps that came with the X-Pipe? I would like to delete the cats altogether as noise is not a problem where I live.
Thanx.
Michael, The Noob. :seeya
Thank you Sir, the next one's on me. :cheers:
That's the explanation I've been waiting for and a lucky sales person somewhere is about to score another commission as a result. :D
Question for you and the folks at LGM:
I took a Sawz-All to my baby last Saturday and installed GHL Bullets and Magnaflow X-Pipe, the first mod I've done that required a power-tool :D. The LGM's mentioned in the above URL run "right up to the original 2 bolt muffler flanges".
With that connection out of existance, will the LGM's accomodate the Magnaflow X-Pipe with just a couple of custom cuts and the clamps that came with the X-Pipe? I would like to delete the cats altogether as noise is not a problem where I live.
Thanx.
Michael, The Noob. :seeya