Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal?
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 38
From: Dix Hills, NY
Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal?
I took it to the dealer and they ordered the parts for me- will change it out next week as soon as the snow disappears. Did any of you guys have this problem? What causes it? I heard if I don't take care of it it could pretty much blow my motor.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 214
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From: HYDE PARK NY
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
Most likely would do damage. I had the same problem 2 months ago, the rubber was coming out and the outer ring was cocked. Sounds like a perfect time for a under drive pulley :thumbs:
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 23,283
Likes: 906
From: Lake Elsinore, CA
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (RONS97C5)
Most likely would do damage. I had the same problem 2 months ago, the rubber was coming out and the outer ring was cocked. Sounds like a perfect time for a under drive pulley :thumbs:
Pro
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
From: Corona California
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
As I recall there are 2 failure modes, internal and external - with internal being the far least destructive. Glad that you identified it early! Mine started to fail within a couple of blocks of the dealer so I was able to limp in without incident.
Pro
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 570
Likes: 1
From: Las Colinas, Texas
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
Glad you found your problem early. Imagine what could happen if your pulley/balancer came loose at high RPM in engine compartment? It would be a crap shoot regarding damage. Good Luck
:smash: :smash:
:smash: :smash:
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,635
Likes: 2
From: Aloha, Oregon
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (Sack Rat TT)
Glad you found your problem early. Imagine what could happen if your pulley/balancer came loose at high RPM in engine compartment? It would be a crap shoot regarding damage. Good Luck
:smash: :smash:
:smash: :smash:
Robert Judd
GenIII Motorsports, Portland, Or
[Modified by rwj383, 9:51 PM 12/15/2003]
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 155
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From: Chatsworth, Ca. 91311
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (rwj383)
I had a factory Harmonic balancer come off of my old 11.20 Mustang (yeah I know, I owned a Ford once in another life) at High RPMs. To add insult to injury, it hit the ground bounced back and put a hole in the oil pan.
That is why NHRA requires SFI approved Balancers.
That is why NHRA requires SFI approved Balancers.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,483
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington DE
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
Anyone:
If you have experienced a wobbling or loose harmonic balancer, what did the engine FEEL like when running?
Was there a VIBRATION when the engine was running?
Jim
If you have experienced a wobbling or loose harmonic balancer, what did the engine FEEL like when running?
Was there a VIBRATION when the engine was running?
Jim
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 38
From: Dix Hills, NY
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (Jim 47)
The engine feels ok- there is a slight vibration at around 1500 RPM. I originally thought I needed to change belts cause I heard the squeaking noise. Good luck! I would change cams but I have an extended warranty that I would like to keep intact. Also, I have read that underdrive pulleys can affect aftermarket stereo systems- i got 2 amps and an aftermarket headunit and changer.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 727
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From: Corona California
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (Jim 47)
In my case the engine felt fine and I can't recall detecting any vibration, I propably wasn't much outside the range of 1200 rpm but the noise was extreme - difficult to describe beyond metal-on-metal. By nature I expect that some failure modes and conditions of the balancer would yield various levels of vibration.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 8,323
Likes: 810
From: Naples Florida
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
Mine fell off after having 52K miles on it. I was going to work one early morning and I heard this loud noise under my hood. At first I thought it was my radio but I turned the radio down and it was from underneath the hood. I limped back to my house and called a tow truck. Came to be the harmonic balancer went bad. I think it cost me 450 dollars to get it fixed with labor and a few new belts. I wish I would have known about putting a new aftermarket pulley in there or else I would have.
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,703
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From: Defending the US Constitution in Northern CA
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
WildWolf,
MSI has seen alot of this problem on motors that are making over 460hp at the crank. Especially if you tend to rev it up. There are a few things going on; One is that the stock balancer is "Pressure/interference fit" to the snout of the crank. High revs combine with the added power tends to make the balancer "walk" on the crank, and makes the bolt stretch eliminating it's clamping force. The best fix, as the supercharged guys will tell you is to pin (key) the balancer to the crank. This keeps the balancer from turning on the crank. Use a 1/4" hardended round pin. A drilling fixture can be purchased from ATI, Vortech or Magnuson. We usually double pin them (with pins 180 degrees from each other).
Keep in mind that the Bolt that fastens the balancer to the crank is a "Torque to Yield" type bolt and only good for one use. DON'T USE IT TWICE!!!! (or it will fail again).
Good Luck and if you need anything else, just give us a call.
Mark
MSI has seen alot of this problem on motors that are making over 460hp at the crank. Especially if you tend to rev it up. There are a few things going on; One is that the stock balancer is "Pressure/interference fit" to the snout of the crank. High revs combine with the added power tends to make the balancer "walk" on the crank, and makes the bolt stretch eliminating it's clamping force. The best fix, as the supercharged guys will tell you is to pin (key) the balancer to the crank. This keeps the balancer from turning on the crank. Use a 1/4" hardended round pin. A drilling fixture can be purchased from ATI, Vortech or Magnuson. We usually double pin them (with pins 180 degrees from each other).
Keep in mind that the Bolt that fastens the balancer to the crank is a "Torque to Yield" type bolt and only good for one use. DON'T USE IT TWICE!!!! (or it will fail again).
Good Luck and if you need anything else, just give us a call.
Mark
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,349
Likes: 38
From: Dix Hills, NY
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (C5stein)
Thanks for the info!!!!! My car is at the dealer now- I don't think this car will ever have 460 at the crank. I will have a C6 before that happens. Good info none the less. :cheers:
Racer
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington NC
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
I bet it's the crankshaft. I noticed that the crank pulley on my 2000 "wobbled" at 26k miles. Long story short, the crankshaft had a little warpage and the dealership replaced it under warranty. Problem solved. My Vette has 44k miles on it now and has never run better.
That noise was driving me crazy. It sounded like a bad belt, but worse. It was the most noticeable between 1500 and slightly over 2k rpm. Sometimes the noise went away after driving for a long period of time. The worst was when the engine was cold.
The good thing about my experience, although it was very time-consuming and a general pain in the butt, is that everything in the front of my motor was replaced with new GM parts, all belts, pullies, waterpump, you name it. GM didn't listen to me at first when I suspected it was the crankshaft and had the dealership replace everything else, only to find out they could have fixed the problem a whole lot sooner.
Hope this helps. Just thought I would share my experience since sometimes it is difficult to pin-point problems.
Adam
[Modified by PewterVette, 10:33 PM 12/16/2003]
That noise was driving me crazy. It sounded like a bad belt, but worse. It was the most noticeable between 1500 and slightly over 2k rpm. Sometimes the noise went away after driving for a long period of time. The worst was when the engine was cold.
The good thing about my experience, although it was very time-consuming and a general pain in the butt, is that everything in the front of my motor was replaced with new GM parts, all belts, pullies, waterpump, you name it. GM didn't listen to me at first when I suspected it was the crankshaft and had the dealership replace everything else, only to find out they could have fixed the problem a whole lot sooner.
Hope this helps. Just thought I would share my experience since sometimes it is difficult to pin-point problems.
Adam
[Modified by PewterVette, 10:33 PM 12/16/2003]
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,483
Likes: 1
From: Wilmington DE
Re: Harmonic balancer wobbling- is this normal? (WildWolf)
Josh:
Just got back from a "second opinion" Chev Dealer. They said the vibration I feel and the screeching I hear is because the Harmonic Balancer is "coming apart". This confirms everything that this thread is saying. The first dealer that I took the car to couldn't find the source of the problem, but what burned me the most is, they said said they compared my car to other Vettes and there was NO difference. Don't you just hate it when people deliberately lie to you or are so incompetient that they can't properly diagnose a simple problem. I guess they just don't want my business, so I can accomodiate them and never go back there again. :D
Thanks to all you guys for the ideas and information posted here. It was very helpful to me. Have a Merry Christmas.
Jim Helm :thumbs:
Just got back from a "second opinion" Chev Dealer. They said the vibration I feel and the screeching I hear is because the Harmonic Balancer is "coming apart". This confirms everything that this thread is saying. The first dealer that I took the car to couldn't find the source of the problem, but what burned me the most is, they said said they compared my car to other Vettes and there was NO difference. Don't you just hate it when people deliberately lie to you or are so incompetient that they can't properly diagnose a simple problem. I guess they just don't want my business, so I can accomodiate them and never go back there again. :D
Thanks to all you guys for the ideas and information posted here. It was very helpful to me. Have a Merry Christmas.
Jim Helm :thumbs:
