NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question.....
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Instructor
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From: Chesapeake VA
NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question.....
I am not gonna ask the typical "should i get the heads and cams or a FI system" :crazy:. My question is...I've seen heads and cam cars run 10's, but havent seen normal FI cars run 10's (yes there are some with huge turbos, or blower +forged). The heads and cam cars i've seen lay down about 475rwhp/450 rwtq, and the FI's lay down about 500/435. Is is the lost torque, the 80 more pounds, OR IS IT MY IMAGINATION?????? Please let me know if i'm on or off here.
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From: http://www.mphparts.com 800-364-1975
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (4N EATER)
You are right, there are not as many FI cars putting down 9s and 10s as H/C cars. There are a few different theories I've seen on the FI section, all of which I think contribute in some way.
One is that many of the FI cars don't have the same power curve as some H/C cars. They tend to make more peak power. If a car makes 1000hp but only between 5800 and 6000RPM it will still probably lose against a car that makes 500hp with a nice power curve.
Another is demographic -- many FI guys (including myself) are just looking for more "fun" power but not necessarily looking to use that power at the drag strip. I take my car to the strip occassionally but never put on ET streets or DRs because I don't want to pay for broken clutches or transmissions yet. So many of us are not as "serious" at the strip.
Finally, there's just the sheer numbers thing. Not as many go with FI as do with H/C. So assuming that FI guys have equal skill as H/C guys at the strip, by just the numbers you would expect there to be more guys getting good numbers with H/C than with FI.
[Modified by diynoob, 7:27 PM 2/18/2004]
One is that many of the FI cars don't have the same power curve as some H/C cars. They tend to make more peak power. If a car makes 1000hp but only between 5800 and 6000RPM it will still probably lose against a car that makes 500hp with a nice power curve.
Another is demographic -- many FI guys (including myself) are just looking for more "fun" power but not necessarily looking to use that power at the drag strip. I take my car to the strip occassionally but never put on ET streets or DRs because I don't want to pay for broken clutches or transmissions yet. So many of us are not as "serious" at the strip.
Finally, there's just the sheer numbers thing. Not as many go with FI as do with H/C. So assuming that FI guys have equal skill as H/C guys at the strip, by just the numbers you would expect there to be more guys getting good numbers with H/C than with FI.
[Modified by diynoob, 7:27 PM 2/18/2004]
Team Owner
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From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
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Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (4N EATER)
Not many guys that have FI also have an automatic with a TC, low gears and run a set of drag slicks either... Not saying that is what you need to run a fast 1/4 mile... but it certainly helps out.
LPE makes a killer F/I car that smokes the 1/4 mile more than any H/C setup I have seen here... so I guess it all comes down to buyin mods for what you want to do with your car. :smash:
Shinobi and I will take our cars to the 1/4 mile soon to test them out. I am certain that Shinobi is going to turn a quicker time because of the TT setup... thats ok with me... I will be happy for him when he does. :thumbs:
VR :cheers:
[Modified by vetterdstr, 5:36 PM 2/18/2004]
LPE makes a killer F/I car that smokes the 1/4 mile more than any H/C setup I have seen here... so I guess it all comes down to buyin mods for what you want to do with your car. :smash:
Shinobi and I will take our cars to the 1/4 mile soon to test them out. I am certain that Shinobi is going to turn a quicker time because of the TT setup... thats ok with me... I will be happy for him when he does. :thumbs:
VR :cheers:
[Modified by vetterdstr, 5:36 PM 2/18/2004]
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: Chesapeake VA
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (diynoob)
so heads and cam have better power under the curve? I would figure that compared to centrif. blowers, but even Mag. users are in the 11's. "Fun" power??? Whats not fun about heads cam power????...more info pleaseee :D
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Dublin CA
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (vetterdstr)
[QUOTE]...Shinobi and I will take our cars to the 1/4 mile soon to test them out.... /QUOTE]
Really? In Norcal? I have no traction, but I think I'd get bumped off the track the first run anyway.
Really? In Norcal? I have no traction, but I think I'd get bumped off the track the first run anyway.
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Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (blu00rdstr)
Drifting
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From: the West is the best
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (vetterdstr)
I checked out the Sacto park and it looks pretty nice. Are you pulling a house trailer to keep it over twelve seconds or are you getting kicked out after one run?
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: the West is the best
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (Stu in CA)
The Wed night drags appear to be quite popular and might be fun to have a night for a group to go up there. As you know, it is in the boonies and would be a trek for me. I would hope that we could get in more than one run for the effort of going there. Sears Point is the same rules I guess, so maybe just for grins racing would be fun.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Richmond VA
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (4N EATER)
If you think those 10 second H/C cars only have a H/C package on them, you are sadly mistaken.
[Modified by Mehfoud, 2:59 PM 2/19/2004]
[Modified by Mehfoud, 2:59 PM 2/19/2004]
Drifting
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From: the West is the best
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (Mehfoud)
easy Meffoud. I am sure that most would agree that when referring to a H/C car it is assumed that headers, intake, catback, minor TB mods,tires etc are in place as well. Internal engine mods beyond head and cam swaps are NOT required to get into the 10s .
Le Mans Master
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From: Richmond VA
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (2ndVette)
I would also include 4:10 gears and a tq. converter
I am not bashing anything, I love their setups, but to refer to it a simple H/C setup would be an understatement.
:cheers:
I am not bashing anything, I love their setups, but to refer to it a simple H/C setup would be an understatement.
:cheers:
Supporting Vendor
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From: http://www.mphparts.com 800-364-1975
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (4N EATER)
so heads and cam have better power under the curve? I would figure that compared to centrif. blowers, but even Mag. users are in the 11's. "Fun" power??? Whats not fun about heads cam power????...more info pleaseee :D
The reason I went FI was because I didn't want any drivability issues with my car. To get the power I wanted out of H/C I would have a lopey idle and probably a few other side effects. I understand that there are some cars out there making killer power on H/C with no drivability issues but for me the blower was the right call. So by "fun" power I meant power with few adverse effects. Incidentally a blower is an excellent weight reduction kit if you have too much money in your wallet :-)
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Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (2ndVette)
I checked out the Sacto park and it looks pretty nice. Are you pulling a house trailer to keep it over twelve seconds or are you getting kicked out after one run?
VR :cheers:
I think Kevin and I will go in the next 45 days or so.. I will have to check with him to see when we can GTG at the raceway...
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: San Jose/Bear Valley CA
CA Events Coordinator
Re: NOT the same old heads&cam vs. blower question..... (4N EATER)
thanks for the info....and for those jacking the thread, THANKS! :mad
VR :cheers: