Header Shootout - What Car to Use?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Indianapolis Indiana
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Header Shootout - What Car to Use?
So after reading through the post by LG regarding a header comparison, it became clear that we need to decide as to what car would be best for the comparison. A poll seems to be the most diplomatic way to sort this out. :yesnod:
I locked the poll just to help filter out the "we talk about headers too much" whiners.
Personally, I think doing this test on big cube/head-cam/blown cars would just leave more questions, so I didn't include these as choices.
I locked the poll just to help filter out the "we talk about headers too much" whiners.
Personally, I think doing this test on big cube/head-cam/blown cars would just leave more questions, so I didn't include these as choices.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Indianapolis Indiana
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Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
Apologies guys, I hit enter before writing in the Z06 and pre-2001 choices. :banghead:
[Modified by BQuicksilver, 7:30 PM 3/28/2004]
[Modified by BQuicksilver, 7:30 PM 3/28/2004]
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
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From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
Dude.. my car a 2000 A4, has ALL the popular bolt ons & has documented dyno #'s with the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 569
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From: NJ
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (YO-EL)
I think it should be done in a 6-speed coupe/vert or/and on a z06 so that a vendor can not say that the dyno results are lower than normal because automatics dyno lower than 6-speed cars. Just IMO.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,298
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From: Tyler TX
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (YO-EL)
Dude.. my car a 2000 A4, has ALL the popular bolt ons & has documented dyno #'s with the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,912
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (YO-EL)
IMO, An A4 would be a NEGATIVE in doing a dyno test.
[Modified by don527, 8:13 PM 3/28/2004]
Dude.. my car a 2000 A4, has ALL the popular bolt ons & has documented dyno #'s with the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
I have offered, and can do a DIRECT dyno comparison if people want to see their product vs the TPIS/Random pipe system.
[Modified by don527, 8:13 PM 3/28/2004]
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Indianapolis Indiana
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Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (Pumba)
:cheers: Thanks for the replies.
I'll have to agree with the comment above that a MN6 coupe and 2002+ Z06 would be the best case scenario. I'd also like to see an A4, but I doubt anyone would want to install on 3 cars and I believe that an A4 wouldn't show the low RPM range as well, hence failing to evaluate the LG claim of having greater low-end torque.
I'll have to agree with the comment above that a MN6 coupe and 2002+ Z06 would be the best case scenario. I'd also like to see an A4, but I doubt anyone would want to install on 3 cars and I believe that an A4 wouldn't show the low RPM range as well, hence failing to evaluate the LG claim of having greater low-end torque.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,010
Likes: 1,346
From: Des Plaines, Il
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
I think a m6 with intake and exhaust is the best choice because most people have the intake and exhaust before going with headers. I would give the best idea for what the average person could expect.
-B
-B
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,949
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From: Monticello MN
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
Personally, if, as previously mentioned, an M6 makes it easier to measure low end torque, as it can be held in the proper dyno gear from a lower rpm, then an M6 car should be the baseline standard and testing vehicle. The same, identical car for each test. It would be great if the LGM's, Kook's, Dynamax and TPIS's were all included in the testing. However, with the welding, and, therefore, permanent modification of the mid-pipe, required on the TPIS, this may not be possible. Additionally, I hope that a baseline dyno run is recorded, then a run following installation of each system (after giving the computer a chance to relearn) and then a run following LS1 Edit tuning. This will be great! I can't wait! :smash: Some "real-world" dollars vs results numbers to make decisions on! :cool:
Ed
Ed
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,164
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From: Lutz FL
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
I think my car would be a decent test mule...I have baseline dyno's, dyno's after intake & exhaust, and can test on both a mustang and dynojet if need be. Plus like others have said, most people shopping headers (like me) have intake and exhaust done already (like me). Oh well.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,315
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From: Near Jacksonville Fl.
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
Having worked for the General as a test Engineer I would say the vehicle should be completly stock for the test.
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
Team Owner
Joined: May 2003
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From: East Meadow NY
St. Jude Donor '12
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (corvettebob1)
Having worked for the General as a test Engineer I would say the vehicle should be completly stock for the test.
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
As the owner of a stock A4, having those numbers would appeal to me (as a potential purchaser of headers)....
[Modified by chaase, 1:59 PM 3/29/2004]
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,205
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From: NoVA
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
Mine :D
Seriously I think they should use a newer Z06 with intake/exhaust.
My first thought was bone stock but then how many people do you know that would put on headers and leave the restrictive intake on? At least remove the filter lid.
[Modified by fdupny, 3:45 PM 3/29/2004]
Seriously I think they should use a newer Z06 with intake/exhaust.
My first thought was bone stock but then how many people do you know that would put on headers and leave the restrictive intake on? At least remove the filter lid.
[Modified by fdupny, 3:45 PM 3/29/2004]
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,247
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Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (corvettebob1)
Having worked for the General as a test Engineer I would say the vehicle should be completly stock for the test.
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
This is the only way to get a true perspective of the effect of the header design alone! :yesnod:
Any other modifications may compliment or detract from the effect of the header alone.
And I would like to see the comparison done on both an A4 and a MN6. :cheers:
.02
Mike :)
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 786
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From: I need more money TX
Cruise-In IV Veteran
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (BQuicksilver)
I have not read any of the replies yet, so this opinion may have already been posted, but I think it should be a stock vehicle. When I say stock, I mean down to the paper filter, the most it should have is maybe an exhaust system (corsa, borla, b&b, ghl, etc...) nothing else. I believe that will give you true numbers on the header mod alone. Personally, I'm tired of seen dyno graphs that say tons of HP and when I read what else is on the car other then headers it leaves me with a bunch of questions. 40 hp sounds good until you see the car had heads and cam or cam or name your mod here as part of the list. Just my .02. :lurk:
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,763
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From: Austin TX
Re: Header Shootout - What Car to Use? (rcws6)
Personally I could care less what header performs best on a stock engine. I dont have a stock engine. The engine is a system, more than the sum of its parts. You can't treat each modification individually.
If you test on a stock car, there will always be debate about which one is best on a car thats not stock. So unless you're going to test every major combination, I wouldn't even bother.
I think this whole header debate is played out. :beatdeadhorse:
Quite simply, if you want to make the most power you need to do your own testing on your own car. This may seem cost prohibitive, but low mile parts make most of their money back when you sell them used.
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse:
If you test on a stock car, there will always be debate about which one is best on a car thats not stock. So unless you're going to test every major combination, I wouldn't even bother.
I think this whole header debate is played out. :beatdeadhorse:
Quite simply, if you want to make the most power you need to do your own testing on your own car. This may seem cost prohibitive, but low mile parts make most of their money back when you sell them used.
:beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: :beatdeadhorse: