I'm happy with my LG Pro LT headers... Results are in my sig...

 

LGs are great, but I'm running Kooks for cost reasons alone. I got a killer deal w/ the GP a few months back.

 

They are great headers, but too much BS associated with them. Would truly be interested to see what some of these street cars are worth at the track using them. Right now seems like a war of internet dyno numbers and little else.

 

:rolleyes: ECS just did better than Jeremy's car for cam only #'s.

The 500 rwhp car wasn't the one that was take to SC. If you run 400x as many runs as the other guy you are probably going to beat his MPH eventually. Bottom line,same track same day same conditions LGMs had the quickest time.

:beatdeadhorse:

 

:yesnod: Yes, Your Stock Ti catback and TB cost you those precious little power compared to his setup.

I couldn't help myself to answer... I love benchracing! :D

I have to say that of all the talk between A vs. B, that your two cars compared together has been the closest comparison I've seen in terms of cars and mods. No clear winner, but to me, makes me happy with my purchase cause I think the KOOKS are showing that they are holding their own with the best of them.

Don

PS... I would say having the stock catback and TB cost you about 10rwhp and some torque over the other setup. And while we're at it... the K&N prob didn't help either because it has already been well debated that the Varam rocks. :crazy:

 

If you are planning on staying in CA you will find that there are NO long tubes that are CARB legal. Check out my 2 threads. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=791067 and http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=791818 Good luck.

 

I hate to even comment in a thread like this but correct me if I am wrong.

If you add the full 3" system to the other brand (some of them don't even offer the 3" option) and add the "full stainless steel" option to the other brand doesn't the price go up? and if you consider adding the Random full 3" cats, rather than the ceramic cats of the other brand, would not the price go up even more?

The justification of the price is vrey obvious. Our system is an integrated full 3 " system made of full 304 stainless and comes with no options, because they are all included. You can only choose Cats or off road, and you can add cats later if you choose.

The power differences are seen in the power curve.

I will post up the graph from a new install that we just did for a magazine on a 03 Z06. The power was 390.7rwhp 382rwtq, with only a Blackwing and Borla Stingers. The car did 388.1 with Cats installed, back to back. No other mods.

As for the Top speed in the 1/4 mile? The SC car of J-rod was at stock ride height, with tall skinnys on the front so the car went down the track like a boat with the nose in the air. That is a significant drag on a car. Plus the car would have gone faster ET and MPH if the nose was lowered along with the whole car.

When the ECS gragh gets posted, what you will see is a very broad power curve. Torque is the only thing that is ever measured on any dyno. The hp numbers are just a caculation derived from the observed torque numbers.

So if the car has more torque throughout the range, it therefore has more hp throughout the range. Low end torque, is really low end horsepower. A peaky graph means that the power can only be realized(put to the ground) when the gearing and transmission are in that range. So a car with low torque numbers but decent hp numbers at higher RPMs, has to gear the car to be in that rpm range to take advantage of any hp increases.

I will be the first to admit that in an all out big block large cu in engine, a larger primary( 1 7/8") will be better, or even a stepped primary. The laws of physics do not change for LGM either. But for anything below a 383cu in street driven engine a 1 3/4" primary would be called for.

Each time a Corvette with our headers reaches some new plateau which reinforces the great performance of our headers, one must ask why these high water marks are consistantly reach by cars with LGM headers?

There is a consistancy in the performance and the "Fatness" of the power curve that is associated with the LG Pro Long Tube headers. There is also very little to be lost with the 3" Metal Matrix Cats. We sell a product that is different and more complete than any header on the market. It produces a predictable result and gives significant power throughout the rpm range.

We could have lowered the price by using a cheap cat, or by using galvanized exhaust pipes for the X and rear pipes, but we did not want to compromise our standards. The result is that you know what you are getting, and it is a complete high quality system from the engine to the mufflers.

Are the LG Pro Long Tubes for everyone? No. But they meet the needs of many of the Corvette C5 owners who are looking for exactly what I have described. And the falacy of the whole header debate is that LG Pro Long tube headers cost more. We install them for $300 at LGM because they are simple to install. If you are not going to install them yourself, then you must consider the cost of install in your final price which again will bring the out the door cost much closer.

At any rate, I look forward to working with many of you in the future for any of your Corvette ralated mods.

Thanks

Lou Gigliotti LGM



[Modified by LG Motorsports, 9:54 AM 4/12/2004]

 

Hey Don (good first name :jester ),

I'm not so sure that had my A/F been brought from 12.9 to 13.2 that our numbers wouldn't have been virtually identical. I think the stock Ti exhaust flows very well (it's just not loud) and who knows about the ported TB. As for the K&K FIPK Air Charger, it's a bottom feeder, so I'm not so certain that the Vararam offers a whole lot more power (perhaps maybe at speed; don't know about that, since they haven't invented a dyno to take measurements during a 1/4 mile run :jester ) Our rwtq numbers were actually within a ft-lb or so of each other, so the only difference was the 6 rwhp. Is that due to a "coefficient of error" within the instrument taking the measurement? Maybe. All in all, I would agree that this comparison between the two cars (his incidently has 10K miles on it, mine 8K) was about as close (other than them being on different days..but the numbers were SAE, so they are corrected) as any comparison between two cars with the LG's vs the Kooks. :cheers:


[Modified by Geneus, 4:45 PM 4/12/2004]


[Modified by Geneus, 6:08 PM 4/12/2004]

 

Mr. Gigliotti,

Here are the links to the two dyno graphs of my car (w/ Kooks) and Tom's (w/ the LG's).
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56763
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57153

Now I don't profess to be an expert at these things (and I can't superimpose the graphs...I'm not that computer savy) but if one examines them closely I think one will see that they look effectively equivalent. So the argument about "power under the curve" to me becomes a mute point, at least in this comparison. I still believe you have a most excellent product that will last a lifetime for anyone who purchases it. And no one (including myself, who is not a DIY'er) will dispute the ease of installation of your headers compared to some other brands.

As I have always contended, choice is a good thing. :cheers:

 

Everything that he said :iagree:

 

The problem is, you're looking at two different cars, w/o before and after runs on the same dyno/day.

To me, the LG chart looks better as the Kooks chart has alot of jumps in the HP and TQ in the lower RPMs when the LG looks pretty smooth.

Also, the charts are not set to the same scaling, so that might be the issue, but in any case, when you compare 2 different cars it's the same as Apples to Oranges.

Like you said, choice is good. You can't argue with that.

 

Apples to Oranges? They may not be on the same car but from all the other
comparisons, it's about as close as you're gonna get.

We're talking two 405hp Z06s. We're talking same dyno and same tuner that tuned
both setups to his ability. And both with relatively minor mods. with the nod
going to the LG equipped car with a mod or two extra.

Yes, it would have been nice to have baseline cause one car could be a few hp
higher than the other. But given the close setups of the car it's worth
overlooking baseline and look at and compare the final peak numbers.

I don't know why the nitpicking... IMO, the cars are very similar in that the
data is worth looking at. Lou at LG has no problem in using superimposing one
dyno sheet over another of two separate cars to make his point in his posts.

If you want apples to apples... then the only way IMO is testing both headers
on an ENGINE DYNO using an LS6 (my preference here) from an independent . And I
don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon. I don't even a comparison from same
car will happen anytime soon. So we have to work with what we got and the
comparison between the two Z06s shouldn't be discounted so easily.

 

Yeah... two 405hp Z06s.... have you seen the thread here today about the new 405hp Z06 only putting out 320ish RWHP ? easily one of those two cars run in this thread could be down quite a bit on HP or TQ.

Both final numbers look fine, but as I said before, it is Apples to Oranges. Both owners should be happy with their cars, but these results don't say who made the most gains with which exhaust.

 

:iagree:

 

Buy a used set of coated tpis from somebody who has to have kooks or lg's. My almost new/slightly used tpis and Bassani x-pipe for 750 bucks and 400 to install. I had lots of money left over for other mods compared to 1500 for lg's and another 400-500 for install. Just my .02....If you have unlimited funds.....then get kooks or lg's, they seem to make the most hp!

 

FLP's, 4.5 hour install and no problems after a year. I gained 31 RWHP/TQ from the FLPs and that's w/o tuning. Paid a litle over $1400 delivered from Shawn @ LAPD. Fit and finish are first class.

Tom

 

Well Hell! What do you expect! with moderator pay affording you a twin turbo vette you should be moving 100 posts threads a day :p: . By the way, how do you remove the fuel rail covers :confused: OOhh, would you like to see my C6 pics from the Houston auto show? :troll

 

Not me, the C6 is fugly :lol:

 

Mine rust after about a year or so of use.

I have both Kooks and LGM also, did not realize the Kooks use aluminized mild steel for the mid section. If you add the options the LG has onto the Kooks the price would be about the same.


[Modified by boblackhardtop, 11:26 AM 4/14/2004]

 

:iagree: