First off, I don't want this to turn into a war so the turner will remain un-named. I just want to share my story with all of you and get your feedback because I don't have the technical knowledge of the inner workings of an engine. All responses will be appreciated.

I have a 408 engine. Don't know all of the componets in it. Don't know the bore or stroke, not sure that matters. It's compression ratio is 1/2 point over stock. Was told that this is very pump gas friendly. A few months ago I noticed a loud ticking noise. I phoned the tuner and was told to flat bed it to the shop. After waiting for over 2 months they told me what the problem is. They said that I more than likely purchased a bad tank of gas and this clogged the injectors and damaged one of the pistons. The other 7 pistons looked fine but the one in question had a piece 1/2 inch in length that had broken off along the edge of the piston. God knows what happened to the broken piece as it bounced around in the cylindar. The edge of the piston that was damaged had an edge that was sticking up and was hitting the head as it moved up and down. That is what created the sound I was hearing.

This is the problem I have. I've been told that since it was an external factor that cause the damage and not a "design flaw" that it is not covered under the warrenty. I take very good car of my car. I do all of the required maintenance and take some pride in being a corvette owner. I have never put anything lower than 93 octane in the car. One tank I remember feeling suspect about because the car seemed sluggish after I filled up. I babied the car for that tank and then started putting 94 in it. I even babied it on the next tank because I wanted to make sure that all of the bad gas was gone. On the third tank I started to dive it normally.

There's a couple of other things I want you to know. I have had the engine for 2 yrs. I have 4500 miles on it. It sat at the turner for 6 months to get the engine. After I had it for 500-800 miles the engine died. All was taken care of no questions asked. Not even sure what the problem was. The only problem is that the car was at the shop for 2 months to solve that problem. Now it is back in the shop and I might be looking at a $2k bill. I don't know what it is going to be. Do you all agree with the assesment of the problem or could it have been a bad pistion that should be covered under warrenty? If it was bad gas, I'm going to be alittle nervous each time I fill up thinking it could be a $2k tank of gas. And you thought gas prices were high.

I guess I'm frustrated because I have so few miles on it, have had 2 major incidents and don't feel very confident in its relaibility, that it has sat up at the tuner for a good 5-6 months out of the 24 month warrenty (don't forget about the 5-6 months it took to put the engine in) and I don't even go to the track that often. I think my car likes to sit at the turner's garage while the weather is nice.

Thanks for listening. I feel alittle better after venting on the forum. Sorry it was long. Anyone want to buy a Vette? :sad:


[Modified by 99BlueCoupe, 6:39 PM 5/25/2004]


[Modified by 99BlueCoupe, 6:39 PM 5/25/2004]

 

I dont know of any 'bad gas' that would crack a piston. Depending on the size cam you have in your motor, your pistons may have needed to be fly cut. If the cutting weakened the piston then that may have caused your bad piston. It would have to be an extreme lean condition with detonation to crack a piston, especially if the piston was forged. One good thing is that the missing piece of pistion didnt score the wall of your block. If you cant get it resolved, then take it to Andy and have him fix it.

 

Please PM me with the name of the tuner as I want to make sure I *never* do business with them. Anyone who takes their sweet time upgrading / fixing your car and then blames the victim when it blows up doesn't deserve my business. This sounds like major BS.

Mark

 

You waited 2 months for something that should have only taken a few days, just a guess here but it sounds like your getting screwed ... BIG TIME

 

This waiting around for 2 months to get your car fixed period is :bs
It sounds like you are getting jacked around to me. :mad

 

I think it did because when talking to them they said something about the walls and even mentioned that they made need to make it into a 410.

 

Thanks for the responses so far. I've been unhappy with how long the car has to sit at the shop. I'm not a weekend warrior at the strip so I feel that I get pushed back so more serious racers can get their car prepped for the track. I didn't mind in the past because it was warrenty work but it's getting old. I seem to miss all the nice weather. Spring is over and I didn't get to enjoy the car once. I feel that the car should be covered under warrenty but I don't have the expertise to back that claim. This is the tech section and I'm hoping our tech-minded members will chime in.

 

If they have to make it a 410, then it did score your cylinder walls. If it took them 2 months to diagnose your car I would be concerned. Pulling the heads (4 hours) would allow them to measure the score in the cylinder walls. If the score is over .010 then your block is junk. Hope the tuner does it right, as the block and pistons should be rebalanced.

 

It sounds like you are getting the run around big time. I would start by asking how they determined that it was a clogged injector and why you would not have been getting misfires on that cylinder if it was not getting fuel.

Ask to see what piston it is. I would not be surprised if it was #7.

Overall, I would say you need to get your car out of this shop and get a decent motor put in it.

Find out what type of rings and gap they had put in it. Sounds to me like it was too tight and busted the ringland upon expansion.


[Modified by QuickSilver2002, 10:54 PM 5/25/2004]

 

:nono: That's not good. Bad Gas ??? :lolg:

Can Auto Research Teach Everybody Kindness? ;)


[Modified by Corvette4ever, 5:08 AM 5/26/2004]

 

I suggest you tell the shop how you feel about this, just as you described here. If they are unwilling to cover the work under warranty, take it to another shop for a second opinion. If the second shop comes up with a different diagnosis that is covered under your warranty, demand that they (the first shop)cover the repair, towing, the second opinion, and extend your warranty for the period the car had to sit. If they refuse, pay the other shop to fix it, document everything and take them to small claims court on it. If the second opinion doesn't fall within warranty, still pay the second shop to fix it, no sense putting more profit in the pockets of people who let your car sit for two months. Not an expert, just my $.02...

Good Luck! :thumbs:


[Modified by IFLUBYU, 3:05 AM 5/26/2004]

 

I would not suspect bad gas. Preignition can cause a piston failure but the C5 has a knock sensor that retards the spark to prevent damage. The owners manual will state if you use less than 91 (if I remember correct) you will get less performance and to avoid wide open throttle, which you did. Now for component failure. There is not a manufacture I know (30 yrs in mfg working quality) that produces 0 Defects. Granted some get to the .001% but none at 0. Therefore I have to refer to reliability engineering and the bath tub failure curve. This curve indicates most failures occur early in life and late in life of the component. What this means is that a defect can cause a premature failure. (in this case I believe this is what you have). The end of the curve relates to wear out.

The other issue is the component might have been damaged prior to installation or foreign material left in the engine system,, manifold,, air delivery, or even cylinder.

I would expect the vendor to stand behind this work and make it good or offer some $$ incentive to share the expense if you bought it with 0 warranty.

With 0 warrenty you still expect honest work and an good dealer will stand behind the work even with out a warranty. (most mods for racing don't give warranty)

Basically you were still in the breakin period of your new engine.

If you allow the vendor to repair the engine,, don't make a big crisis of no warranty,, you don't want to have another failure later.

I reco as others once you clear this dealer get as far away from them as you can because based upon your information they :U :U

Good luck. vettdvr............99 Nassau Blue

 

I have explained to them exactaly what I have posted. In fact I was there yesterday talking to them about it. I posted this thread when I returned home because I wanted to see what others thought of the diagnosis and see if others believed it should be covered under the warrenty or not.

Right now the engine is out of the car and is on an engine stand. I do want them to fix it because I want the monster that I paid for. I just hope that we can work something out because I don't want to shell out tons of cash for an engine rebuild after 4500 miles.

 

The C5 has so many fail safe sytems that I would tend to lay the blame squarely on the backs of the tuners. i would also be a bit concerned that they laid such a lame excuse as "bad gas" on the problem. Doesn't sound like they are overly educated on what knock retard does. That would have worked great 25 years ago!

 

mdhmi
If you really want to find out, just use Search. It’s easy - took me 2 minutes to figure it out.

99BlueCoupe,
First of all sorry about the trouble. I know exactly how you feel ‘cause I was in your shoes before waiting for my car to be fixed for a looong time. :( It sucks :sad:, but the good news is - once it’s fixed you forget about it quickly :D

As far as your engine, judging by the way you described it – it sounds a little weird that a piece of the piston would break off :eek:
I’m sure you got forged pistons and if you got bad gas and detonated the hell out of it, I’d figure you’d blow the head gasket before you break a forged piston.

If you got a clogged injector – that’s gotta be easy to verify. Not sure how bad gas has to be to clog it….

Bottom line there’re a thousand things that could’ve gone wrong. It could be tuners fault, but it could be just bad luck as well.
The only way to know for sure it to have everything independently inspected.

This tuner was excellent reputation, so regardless who’s fault it is I’m very surprised and concerned they’re not taking care of you. :confused:
I hope you guys work it out and you have your car on the road quickly.

Good luck :cheers:

 

You are getting blued, screwed and tattoed! You are the victim of a tidal wave of :bs . Were it me I would tell the wonderful tuner to fix it under the warrantee or I would seek legal assistance. It would take a good deal of chemical and metal work to prove their claim and I would bet the only work they have done was to sit down and concoct a line of garbage that you would be frightened by. Fight back, you are on the way to becoming a victim.


[Modified by CAPN17, 9:49 AM 5/26/2004]

 

Having worked as an engineer is the automotive fuel system industry, it takes more than one tank of "bad gas" to clog up a fuel injector. The fuel filter should help you out there and as others have stated there are other things that should help protect the engine. If you have a written warranty then it should be up to them to prove that the failure was not a defect in part or workmanship. What proof do they have that it is bad gas? Have they flowed the injectors? Sounds like they have a wild theory not proof.

 

;) That's kinda scary. I thought they were considered a premier tuner. Yikes!

Mark

 

That's interesting.

My friend just cracked a piston in his 78 blazer. Valve hung open and kissed the piston. Don't think a tank of bad gas trashed your engine.

 

Get your car back BEFORE threatening legal action. Especially if you need to gather evidence.