02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry??
Thread Starter
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry??
I vaguely remember that when the 02 Z06 came out with the 405 ponies, we discussed and discovered that to achieve the specs of the LS6 cam if you were to swap it into an LS1 or 01 LS6, you need to change the ENTIRE valvetrain, i.e. cam, pushrods (I thought they were a little longer??) rockers and valves??
am i smokin crack or is this the case???
reason I ask is that I am dropping a 6.0 liter long block (milled heads .030) with LS6 cam, and the 5.3 liter intake and accessories
I am thinkin I will have a bout a 400 hp set up (CR will be a little lower at 10:1 instead of 10.5:1 in the LS6) with the additional cubes and the long tube headers that I got from TByrne !!!
help ol RAT feel at ease PLEASE
thanks
am i smokin crack or is this the case???
reason I ask is that I am dropping a 6.0 liter long block (milled heads .030) with LS6 cam, and the 5.3 liter intake and accessories
I am thinkin I will have a bout a 400 hp set up (CR will be a little lower at 10:1 instead of 10.5:1 in the LS6) with the additional cubes and the long tube headers that I got from TByrne !!!
help ol RAT feel at ease PLEASE
thanks
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,558
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From: Cape Coral FL
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
I am going through this now and this is what I have uncovered. The LS1 block was used from 97 to 00, and the LS6 block was used thereafter. The cam journals are the same size and distance but the cam base circle of the LS6 was reduced in size to achieve higher lift without enlarging the journal bores in the block. In doing so, GM lengthend the valves on the LS6 by .6mm or 6mm to keep the geometry correct. If you are putting LS6 heads and valves on an LS1 and keeping the LS1 cam base circle you should change the pushrods to 7.350" length. In your case I don't know what your pushrod length should be, but you can measure it, or hopefully someone on the forum has done your build and will give you the lengths. 
Thread Starter
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (ArKay99)
I KNEW I read that !!!
so it all depends on the 6.0 liter block and the cam base circle??? what is the cam base circle ( is the location in the block ?? )
thanks
RAT
so it all depends on the 6.0 liter block and the cam base circle??? what is the cam base circle ( is the location in the block ?? )
thanks
RAT
Safety Car
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From: Cape Coral FL
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
The cam base circle is the 'imaginary' circle the lobes are ground to. In other words, if you put the cam in a lathe and ground a lobe so it was perfectly round without taking off any material on the back of the lobe and measured that, you would have your base circle. I read an article recently, but don't have it. It gave the measurements of the LS1 cam, the 01 LS6, and the 02+ LS6 cams. Not sure if that would help you, but you can get a pushrod length checker from Comp Cams, check your length after the engine is put together, and the can make you a set of custom length pushrods to accomodate any valvetrain geometry.
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (ArKay99)
DAMMIT.........that sounds like I am gonna have to do some more research with them
nothin worth doing is easy is it
thanks
RAT
nothin worth doing is easy is it
thanks
RAT
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From: Cape Coral FL
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
I believe there is a tech article on the Comp Cams website that details how to measure the pushrod length for ideal geometry. It's pretty easy and the tool is only about $20.
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From: Tampa, FL
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Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (ArKay99)
I believe there is a tech article on the Comp Cams website that details how to measure the pushrod length for ideal geometry. It's pretty easy and the tool is only about $20.
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From: Cape Coral FL
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (2KREDVert)
I am thinking about the Z06 cam too for my 2000 LS1. Has anyone on this forum done this so we don't have to reinvent the wheel?
Melting Slicks
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From: Bonita CA
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (ArKay99)
Thanks for the great information. What cam would you recommend keeping the LS1 base circle and respectable idle for street with an A/T?
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (ArKay99)
screw the hi jack......i am all game for listenin
although the 6.0 L block is different, i like to learn new chit
with me millin the heads of the 6.0L ..... I will achieve some of the affects of the longer valves, maybe not as much, but I will get some
400 hp suburban.....my mission with semi stock tune
i see it in the not so distant future
thanks
RAT
although the 6.0 L block is different, i like to learn new chit
with me millin the heads of the 6.0L ..... I will achieve some of the affects of the longer valves, maybe not as much, but I will get some
400 hp suburban.....my mission with semi stock tune
i see it in the not so distant future
thanks
RAT
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From: Insert Wittty Comment here
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ranger)
The valves on the '02 and later Z06 are .100 longer than other Ls1 motors. The valves are hollow stem NaK filled valves. The base circle of a cam is the part of the cam the lifter rides on when the vlaves are closed. Think of this as the smallest part of the cam. If there was no lobe on the cam, you would be left with just the base circle. A cam can only have x ammount of lift beecause of the limitation of the size of the cam bore. So, when you get to a certain point the only way to increase lobe lift is to shrink the original base circle. You can use a Z06 cam with stock heavy valves or aftermarket stainless valves. You simply need to compensate for the decrease in base circle and the shorter valves with a differnet pushrod and a better spring (like a 918).
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From: Insert Wittty Comment here
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (J-Rod)
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173196
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100927
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75028
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1395
You'll be fine in a 6.0L with this combo. But if you want low end grunt, there may be some other cams that might do better. Look in the truck section on LS1tech.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100927
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75028
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1395
You'll be fine in a 6.0L with this combo. But if you want low end grunt, there may be some other cams that might do better. Look in the truck section on LS1tech.
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From: Cape Coral FL
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
screw the hi jack......i am all game for listenin
RAT
RAT
If so, is this a good thing?
Thread Starter
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (turboo2u)
thanks for the hello !!
I been busy workin and just havent had to time to participate on here like I once did
back to bidness.....
here is what I have........02 up LS6 pushrods, 02 up LS6 valve springs, 02 up LS6 cam, 6.0 liter heads that I will mill .030" , 6.0 l short block
so I need to either get the 02 up LS6 valves, or higher ratio rocker arms???? this to achieve the 02 up LS6 cam numbers......is that right???
thanks
RAT
[Modified by Ram Air Tony, 8:31 AM 7/3/2004]
I been busy workin and just havent had to time to participate on here like I once did
back to bidness.....
here is what I have........02 up LS6 pushrods, 02 up LS6 valve springs, 02 up LS6 cam, 6.0 liter heads that I will mill .030" , 6.0 l short block
so I need to either get the 02 up LS6 valves, or higher ratio rocker arms???? this to achieve the 02 up LS6 cam numbers......is that right???
thanks
RAT
[Modified by Ram Air Tony, 8:31 AM 7/3/2004]
Thread Starter
Race Director
Joined: Feb 1999
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From: DFW, Texas...2001 Millennium Yellow Z06
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
OK, research has been done, thanks for the LS1 Tech posts JRod !!
6.0L is same block as all LS motors (basically, iron, but still same) ..... will my MILLING the heads down .030" affect geometry or will the lifters soak that up???
I am feeling better by the day now (about this swap )
400 hp SUBURBAN
somebody tell me i aint sick
thanks
RAT
6.0L is same block as all LS motors (basically, iron, but still same) ..... will my MILLING the heads down .030" affect geometry or will the lifters soak that up???
I am feeling better by the day now (about this swap )
400 hp SUBURBAN
somebody tell me i aint sick
thanks
RAT
Drifting
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,607
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From: San Francisco CA
Re: 02 up LS6 cam and valvetrain geometry?? (Ram Air Tony)
According to this Hib Halverson article: http://www.idavette.net/hib/02ls6/page2.htm
the LS1 cam has a base circle of 19.7 mm and the 2002 LS6 cam has a base circle of 19mm. That is a difference of .7 mm, which converts to just under 0.028 inches (0.02757999).
If you are going to be milling the heads 0.030 then you would only be increasing the preload by less than 0.002 if you use LS1 valves instead of LS6 valves. That is something that the stock lifters can surely absorb without problems.
The only question I can see is will the heavier LS1 valves be too much for the LS6 springs? All I can say is that I have heard of a number of budget conscious f-body people that have used the LS6 cam and springs with LS1 valves without problems
the LS1 cam has a base circle of 19.7 mm and the 2002 LS6 cam has a base circle of 19mm. That is a difference of .7 mm, which converts to just under 0.028 inches (0.02757999).
If you are going to be milling the heads 0.030 then you would only be increasing the preload by less than 0.002 if you use LS1 valves instead of LS6 valves. That is something that the stock lifters can surely absorb without problems.
The only question I can see is will the heavier LS1 valves be too much for the LS6 springs? All I can say is that I have heard of a number of budget conscious f-body people that have used the LS6 cam and springs with LS1 valves without problems