(2) new codes: HVAC-B0361, B0441, HELP??
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
Yo-el
This is the last time I will reply because this is so dumb. As for the guy who said "can't we all just get along", yes we can. I'm not starting anything with anyone I was just posting advice that other people seem to agree with. YO-EL is the one who continues to insult people.
Ellis-obvioulsy you dont know that the a/c box has a divider that is in front of the evaporator to give you the dual climate control. Nobody said anything about a house cooling on one side. Don't worry I wouldn't come to you for any kind of a/c work, house or car. Especially for a car since you couldn't fix yours on your own you had to get help. And obviously not for a house since I live in Texas and there's plenty of people here who know their stuff.
C-5 Tech-I have been trying to explain how it can cool on side but he doesn't understand. Since you know what I am talking about that is enough for me I don't have to prove anything I was just trying to explain something that is also a possibilty. Thanks for the support on my theory since it IS possible. I should have checked the freon first but like the advice that you see on this board it would seem to be an actuator, but its one of those live and learn mistakes. It didn't hurt because it didn't cost anything luckily the guy charged my sytem for free.
peace
allan
Ellis-obvioulsy you dont know that the a/c box has a divider that is in front of the evaporator to give you the dual climate control. Nobody said anything about a house cooling on one side. Don't worry I wouldn't come to you for any kind of a/c work, house or car. Especially for a car since you couldn't fix yours on your own you had to get help. And obviously not for a house since I live in Texas and there's plenty of people here who know their stuff.
C-5 Tech-I have been trying to explain how it can cool on side but he doesn't understand. Since you know what I am talking about that is enough for me I don't have to prove anything I was just trying to explain something that is also a possibilty. Thanks for the support on my theory since it IS possible. I should have checked the freon first but like the advice that you see on this board it would seem to be an actuator, but its one of those live and learn mistakes. It didn't hurt because it didn't cost anything luckily the guy charged my sytem for free.
peace
allan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Allan.. I'm done too, & will retract my statement about wanting you to sweat.
Its ok to debate..
But FYI, I know HVAC, not cars, so anything technical on my car, it goes to my tech. I do nothing on my car myself.
That being said, & I'll take this with me to the end,
THERE IS NO WAY ANY A/C SYSTEM CAN COOL PROPERLY ON ONE SIDE ONLY IF ITS LOW ON REFRIGERANT. (one side of a car, a house, a refrigerator, a window unit,,, etc...)
IF A SYSTEM IS INDEED LOW ON REFRIGERANT, TOTAL OVERALL COOLING WILL BE AFFECTED!!!!!!!
IT CANNOT COOL ON ONE SIDE ONLY IF THE CHARGE IS LOW.
COOLING SYSTEMS DON'T HAVE MINDS OR A BRAIN.
THEY CAN'T DECEIDE BY THEMSELVES TO COOL ON ONE SIDE ONLY & NOT THE OTHER....
SYSTEM LOW ON FREON, COOLING IS DIMINISHED. PERIOD.!~!!!
Its ok to debate..
But FYI, I know HVAC, not cars, so anything technical on my car, it goes to my tech. I do nothing on my car myself.
That being said, & I'll take this with me to the end,
THERE IS NO WAY ANY A/C SYSTEM CAN COOL PROPERLY ON ONE SIDE ONLY IF ITS LOW ON REFRIGERANT. (one side of a car, a house, a refrigerator, a window unit,,, etc...)
IF A SYSTEM IS INDEED LOW ON REFRIGERANT, TOTAL OVERALL COOLING WILL BE AFFECTED!!!!!!!
IT CANNOT COOL ON ONE SIDE ONLY IF THE CHARGE IS LOW.
COOLING SYSTEMS DON'T HAVE MINDS OR A BRAIN.
THEY CAN'T DECEIDE BY THEMSELVES TO COOL ON ONE SIDE ONLY & NOT THE OTHER....
SYSTEM LOW ON FREON, COOLING IS DIMINISHED. PERIOD.!~!!!
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 10,976
Likes: 21
From: FL
St. Jude Donor '13
Though they work on the same basic premis,it would be unfair to compare a home heating and ventilation system to that of an automotive climate control system that utilizes an ambiant outside temp sensor,in car temp sensor,sun load sensor,numerous pressure sensors,and a computor module that communicates with other modules over a class 2 serial data line,etc...
The C5 has a freon capacity of only 1.63-1.75lbs but will provide cold accumalator to evap low pressure line temperatures with only approximately .75-1.00lb of freon in the system under most circumstances.The PCM monitors line pressures based on freon capacity and operating conditions via the pressure sensor switches.In the event that the system detcts low high side or low side line pressures,the HVAC control head module has a software glitch that will command the left temperature actuator to a neutral (half open,half closed) DEFAULT VALUE position also resulting in left temp door fault codes.
This will result in cold air distributed out the right vents and warm air out the left vents
The C5 has a freon capacity of only 1.63-1.75lbs but will provide cold accumalator to evap low pressure line temperatures with only approximately .75-1.00lb of freon in the system under most circumstances.The PCM monitors line pressures based on freon capacity and operating conditions via the pressure sensor switches.In the event that the system detcts low high side or low side line pressures,the HVAC control head module has a software glitch that will command the left temperature actuator to a neutral (half open,half closed) DEFAULT VALUE position also resulting in left temp door fault codes.
This will result in cold air distributed out the right vents and warm air out the left vents
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Originally Posted by C-5 TECH
.The PCM monitors line pressures based on freon capacity and operating conditions via the pressure sensor switches.In the event that the system detcts low high side or low side line pressures,the HVAC control head module has a software glitch that will command the left temperature actuator to a neutral (half open,half closed) DEFAULT VALUE position also resulting in left temp door fault codes.
This will result in cold air distributed out the right vents and warm air out the left vents
This will result in cold air distributed out the right vents and warm air out the left vents
Bro......
A LOW high side would mean a restriction in the condensor coil, and little or no cooling would occur, regardless of refrigerant level...
A LOW, low side reading would mean either the system is LOW ON refrigerant, or there is a restriction in the EVAPORATOR coil.
Either circumstance, there would be little or NO cooling!!!
The drivers side door position, HAS NOTHING to do with the system's capacity to COOL!!!! ONLY THE REFRIGERANT CHARGE DOES!!!!!
If a system is LOW on gas, ITS NOT GOING TO COOL EFFECTIVELY!
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
a/c
c5-tech it is pointless to state any facts to this guy he thinks he knows it all but you have stated what i was saying. it just seems odd that he want to argue the facts of the c5's cooling system but he says he doesn't no anything mechanically about his car that's why he lets someone else do the work on his car. 
peace bro
allan
peace bro
allan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Dude...
I'm not claiming I know it ALL about air conditioning, but I know it pretty darn well..You can legitimately call me an "EXPERT".
And I'm NOT arguing about the mechanics of the C5, because I do not know too about cars, thats why I have an experienced C5 technician at the dealer perform work for me..
But I will argue the basics of an air conditioning system in general, be it residential, commercial, or automotive, and I am telling you a system LOW on charge CANNOT function PROPERLY on just one side only!
When the refrigerant level is low, the ENTIRE system's cooling level is affected!!!!!
If you can't understand that, or don't buy it, then don't reply, because ANY COMPETANT HVAC technician will echo what I have said.....
I'm not claiming I know it ALL about air conditioning, but I know it pretty darn well..You can legitimately call me an "EXPERT".
And I'm NOT arguing about the mechanics of the C5, because I do not know too about cars, thats why I have an experienced C5 technician at the dealer perform work for me..
But I will argue the basics of an air conditioning system in general, be it residential, commercial, or automotive, and I am telling you a system LOW on charge CANNOT function PROPERLY on just one side only!
When the refrigerant level is low, the ENTIRE system's cooling level is affected!!!!!
If you can't understand that, or don't buy it, then don't reply, because ANY COMPETANT HVAC technician will echo what I have said.....
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
a/c
so what you are saying is that C5-tech doesn't know what he is talking about? like i said the only way you are going to see what i am talking about is to put your car in the same conditions that i am saying, pull all the freon out can only put back in .26-.28 but it seems that you don't want to take the chance at being wrong. hell if your an expert at a/c work this should be easy as pie for you 
.look at this i said i wasn't going to reply but you mister i'am always right attitude brought me back into it. man i don't know why you can't accept the fact that you could be wrong. as a matter of i seriously doubt you are an EXPERT in the a/c field because any a/c guy would check the freon level first, you didn't even use your tools to check it you paid some gm tech to do the a/c work on your car you could of saved some money by knocking that step out. 
peace
allan
.look at this i said i wasn't going to reply but you mister i'am always right attitude brought me back into it. man i don't know why you can't accept the fact that you could be wrong. as a matter of i seriously doubt you are an EXPERT in the a/c field because any a/c guy would check the freon level first, you didn't even use your tools to check it you paid some gm tech to do the a/c work on your car you could of saved some money by knocking that step out. peace
allan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Dude..
You are talking bass ackward...
The FIRST thing done when I had cooling issues as a standard rule of thumb was to put my gages on the system... Go back & read, because you apparently are not paying attention to what I write..
As far as C5 Tech goes, I am not saying 1 thing or inferring 1 thing about his ability or knowledge...
All I am saying, now this is in ENGLISH bro, so I hope you will understand it:
IF a cooling system is LOW on charge, it WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY ON ONE SIDE OF A CAR, A HOUSE, OR A FLOOR OF A BUILDING...
Loss of refrigerant equates to a LOSS IN COOLING!!!
Get it? Or was that NOT simple enough for you?
You are talking bass ackward...
The FIRST thing done when I had cooling issues as a standard rule of thumb was to put my gages on the system... Go back & read, because you apparently are not paying attention to what I write..
As far as C5 Tech goes, I am not saying 1 thing or inferring 1 thing about his ability or knowledge...
All I am saying, now this is in ENGLISH bro, so I hope you will understand it:
IF a cooling system is LOW on charge, it WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY ON ONE SIDE OF A CAR, A HOUSE, OR A FLOOR OF A BUILDING...
Loss of refrigerant equates to a LOSS IN COOLING!!!
Get it? Or was that NOT simple enough for you?
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Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
a/c
no bro you said that your tech did the checking of your system. what i said is that if you know so much about a/c systems then why didn't you check it yourself with the tools you have. or is your memory that short that you couldn't remember what i said when it was time for you to type. you can think whatever you want to about how a car can cool and stick to your guns as you say. and like i said i was just stating what happened to my car so if you weren't there when it happened then don't say its not possible. anyway have a nice day
peace
allan
peace
allan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Dude...
I can't tell you how many people are sending me private messages & emails telling me I'm right...
But, to shut you up, or in a nicer way, straighten you out, do this...
Go to your central air conditioner unit outside your home, put your gages on, and then release some refrigerant say for 15-20 seconds...
just to lower the charge...
Go inside & watch the game, eat a meal, & get a good night's sleep.
Then tell us if your system worked on one side of your house only.
I guarantee it will not. Solely based on the low charge.
So don't tell me only the C5's system can run properly on one side only while low on refrigerant... I don't buy it...
Physics & the theory of refrigeration say in layman's terms, if a system is low, cooling will be altered, to the point where the evaporator will frost or ice up as the charge continues to diminish.
Without a full & proper charge of refrigerant in ANY system, cooling will be affected...
I can't tell you how many people are sending me private messages & emails telling me I'm right...
But, to shut you up, or in a nicer way, straighten you out, do this...
Go to your central air conditioner unit outside your home, put your gages on, and then release some refrigerant say for 15-20 seconds...
just to lower the charge...
Go inside & watch the game, eat a meal, & get a good night's sleep.
Then tell us if your system worked on one side of your house only.
I guarantee it will not. Solely based on the low charge.
So don't tell me only the C5's system can run properly on one side only while low on refrigerant... I don't buy it...
Physics & the theory of refrigeration say in layman's terms, if a system is low, cooling will be altered, to the point where the evaporator will frost or ice up as the charge continues to diminish.
Without a full & proper charge of refrigerant in ANY system, cooling will be affected...
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
a/c
true cooling will be changed due to low freon. dude just hear me out on the c5 the ac lines enter and exit the evaporator on the passange side so with it being low on freon there isn't enough freon in the system to go across the entire evaporator and since the plastic box that the evaporator and control doors are in has a divider in the middle to separate the drivers air and passangers air. the air that is being pushed across the evaporator will only get cool not freezing cold but cool on just the part that the little bit of freon fill the evaporator. hey man you really may be on top of your game with a/c systems and i respect that i know that usually any a/c system will just stop working on low freon but mine didn't. also since you have access to freon just try what i said with your car it would cost you nothing and then if you see what i am talking about maybe you can explain it for me.
p.s. no more cut downs from me i am still amazed at how this happened and since you do hvac work maybe you could find out how. if you are going to try it the freon recovery machine pulled out .26-.28 of freon out of my car. we then pulled a vacuum on it and it held then filled it up and it was like new.
peace
allan
p.s. no more cut downs from me i am still amazed at how this happened and since you do hvac work maybe you could find out how. if you are going to try it the freon recovery machine pulled out .26-.28 of freon out of my car. we then pulled a vacuum on it and it held then filled it up and it was like new.
peace
allan
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Allan...
If the evaporator is NOT getting filled, it will frost or freeze up.
Maybe thats why you say there is cold air on the one side?
In any event, good debate for the others here to read.
I appreciate your civil response.. Take care,
Ellis
If the evaporator is NOT getting filled, it will frost or freeze up.
Maybe thats why you say there is cold air on the one side?
In any event, good debate for the others here to read.
I appreciate your civil response.. Take care,
Ellis
Former Vendor
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 10,976
Likes: 21
From: FL
St. Jude Donor '13
Originally Posted by YO-EL
Allan...
If the evaporator is NOT getting filled, it will frost or freeze up.
Maybe thats why you say there is cold air on the one side?
In any event, good debate for the others here to read.
I appreciate your civil response.. Take care,
Ellis
If the evaporator is NOT getting filled, it will frost or freeze up.
Maybe thats why you say there is cold air on the one side?
In any event, good debate for the others here to read.
I appreciate your civil response.. Take care,
Ellis
Like I mentioned earlier,we see this all the time. Hate to start a new debate but unlike a home A/C system that will freeze up due to low refrigerent or a clogged filter,a GM automotive A/C system will not freeze up due to low refrigerent
A GM system will freeze up if it is overcharged or if the clutch fan or electric cooling fan is not operating correctly
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: victoria tx
a/c
i dont know how it did it but when i had the a/c box apart i started the car and turned the a/c on only about 2 inches from the passanger side of the evaporator was blowing cool air and the rest was just like outside air. anyways if you get a chance try it out and maybe you can explain what we are seeing thanks
p.s. since we kinda took over this post did CAracer ever find out what was wrong with his car "sorry dude " but let us know what it was.
peace
allan
thanks p.s. since we kinda took over this post did CAracer ever find out what was wrong with his car "sorry dude " but let us know what it was.
peace
allan
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by C-5 TECH
Well...Had another one today...Customer complained of warm air out the left vents,cold air out the right vents on a 1999 C5 with climate control.Evacuated the system to find .62lbs of R134 in the system.Recharged the system to 1.63lbs,added some dye to check for a leak in the future,problem fixed Like I mentioned earlier,we see this all the time.
Hate to start a new debate but unlike a home A/C system that will freeze up due to low refrigerent or a clogged filter,a GM automotive A/C system will not freeze up due to low refrigerent A GM system will freeze up if it is overcharged or if the clutch fan or electric cooling fan is not operating correctly
Like I mentioned earlier,we see this all the time. Hate to start a new debate but unlike a home A/C system that will freeze up due to low refrigerent or a clogged filter,a GM automotive A/C system will not freeze up due to low refrigerent
A GM system will freeze up if it is overcharged or if the clutch fan or electric cooling fan is not operating correctly I am currently suffering from the same problem, and I've got a question about the customer you just mentioned. Was his car seeing the B0361 code? I'm getting a B0361 H,C but now that you mention the freon could be low, I want to check your solution out as well. I put a guage on the vacuum line, and it was showing 65 psi in at least 100 degree weather. Please let me know as I'm sweating everyday in my car.
Thanks!
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
ok guys, it was just low freon that did cause the B0361 code and the vent to blow hot air.
I had only about 20 psi and I've got a leak somewhere. It defintely beats fumbling with the actuator gear. I want to thank you guys for keeping me informed on this problem!
I had only about 20 psi and I've got a leak somewhere. It defintely beats fumbling with the actuator gear. I want to thank you guys for keeping me informed on this problem!
Race Director
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,710
Likes: 1,219
From: Phila PA, Bonita Springs FL
Like I said prior, the FIRST thing ANYONE should do with ANY A/C problem is hook up the gauges to measure refrigerant level & this will ALSO tell you the condition of the compressor; ie, if its running, if its running but not pumping, if it has bad valves etc.....