LS2 Intake and 90MM TB install on LSx engine
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 10
From: Macomb MI
LS2 Intake and 90MM TB install on LSx engine
LS2 intake asm will bolt on an LSX engine,
It will require
The new fuel rails and lower injector o-rings seals and .300" rail spacers to make up the different in height between the injectors.
The original current rail can be use with a buncha tweaking, but the new LS2 are a much larger diameter.
90MM LS2 drive by wire throttle body can be retro wired to current PCM and be fully functional.
Extend MAP sensor (use current lsx sensor ) wiring 21� to reach the front from current rear position.
Current fuel rail covers will not directly bolt on, but will with a tweak to the fuel inlet and some tweaking with a die grinder
All the current Brake Booster,PCV lines etc as well at the 4"OD inlet hose are the same.
90MM LS2 Throttle body will work with the following information
PIN ID LS2 90mm
A.) ACT2
B.) ACT1
C.) +5v TPS Reference – Common to both TPS’s
D.) TP1 Signal 0-5v
E.) Common Ground
F.) TP2 Signal 5-0v
98-04 Wiring hookup
A.) ACT 2 - Brown
B.) ACT 1 - Yellow
C.) +5 TPS Dk Green/Wht
D.) TP1 Signal – Drak Blue
E.) TPS GND – Purple
F.) TP2 Signal – Pink
Yes it works better and much cheaper than an LSX manifold, and the drivability of the 90mm TB is very good.
Phil
It will require
The new fuel rails and lower injector o-rings seals and .300" rail spacers to make up the different in height between the injectors.
The original current rail can be use with a buncha tweaking, but the new LS2 are a much larger diameter.
90MM LS2 drive by wire throttle body can be retro wired to current PCM and be fully functional.
Extend MAP sensor (use current lsx sensor ) wiring 21� to reach the front from current rear position.
Current fuel rail covers will not directly bolt on, but will with a tweak to the fuel inlet and some tweaking with a die grinder
All the current Brake Booster,PCV lines etc as well at the 4"OD inlet hose are the same.
90MM LS2 Throttle body will work with the following information
PIN ID LS2 90mm
A.) ACT2
B.) ACT1
C.) +5v TPS Reference – Common to both TPS’s
D.) TP1 Signal 0-5v
E.) Common Ground
F.) TP2 Signal 5-0v
98-04 Wiring hookup
A.) ACT 2 - Brown
B.) ACT 1 - Yellow
C.) +5 TPS Dk Green/Wht
D.) TP1 Signal – Drak Blue
E.) TPS GND – Purple
F.) TP2 Signal – Pink
Yes it works better and much cheaper than an LSX manifold, and the drivability of the 90mm TB is very good.
Phil
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 0
Thanks Phil thats great info I have a TPIS 90mm and a Nick Williams 90mm and would love to compare to the new GM---drivability tuning is a bitch, much easier with Nicks as he designed his to limit the initial flow that is hard to compensate for with the TPIS--it looks as if you are saying that the ls2 manifold setup is superior is this in flow, performance or are you mainly speaking of drivability which is the primary concern of most of the 90mm guys--
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,799
Likes: 11
From: dudley MA
Originally Posted by NEPTUNEBILL
Thanks Phil thats great info I have a TPIS 90mm and a Nick Williams 90mm and would love to compare to the new GM---drivability tuning is a bitch, much easier with Nicks as he designed his to limit the initial flow that is hard to compensate for with the TPIS--it looks as if you are saying that the ls2 manifold setup is superior is this in flow, performance or are you mainly speaking of drivability which is the primary concern of most of the 90mm guys--
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 10
From: Macomb MI
Originally Posted by NEPTUNEBILL
the ls2 manifold setup is superior is this in flow, performance or are you mainly speaking of drivability which is the primary concern of most of the 90mm guys--
! But as we have seen it's splitting hairs depending on the application. Its going to take some time to get a good feel for its performance over the LSX. I'm sure some of the major tuners are chomping at the bit to play with them as they are very cost effective.
Last edited by RoadRebel; Aug 3, 2004 at 07:33 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,966
Likes: 22
From: Frederick Maryland
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11
Originally Posted by 427 C5
I am dying to know what parts are forward and backward compatible between the C5 and C6.
Many of the componets that I am curious about are:
the block, the heads, clutch, exhaust, shifter, rear end, etc.
Many of the componets that I am curious about are:
the block, the heads, clutch, exhaust, shifter, rear end, etc.
LS2 heads are the same as those on an '01 (375hp) LS6. This should give you an indication of what parts are interchangeable.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 10
From: Macomb MI
Mark,
Yes...The bell shaped entrys into the runners seem to work very well.
They also moved the injector entry higher in the runner, so not it does not block the port roof.
PN are avail at your local dealer..it can be weasled if you know how. Should be avail straight up in less than 4 weeks. THe only major snag for most will be the new style connector for the throttlebody. I suspect most will use the old style packard pins on them (they fit) and solder and epoxy them in place. The Delphi part #'s have not hit the market yet, it is the new corporate standard plugs so they will be used in a lot of different applications.
Yes...The bell shaped entrys into the runners seem to work very well.
They also moved the injector entry higher in the runner, so not it does not block the port roof.
PN are avail at your local dealer..it can be weasled if you know how. Should be avail straight up in less than 4 weeks. THe only major snag for most will be the new style connector for the throttlebody. I suspect most will use the old style packard pins on them (they fit) and solder and epoxy them in place. The Delphi part #'s have not hit the market yet, it is the new corporate standard plugs so they will be used in a lot of different applications.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,474
Likes: 2
From: Detroit
Thanks Phil. I'm getting excited. Any idea how much $$ the 90 mm TB/manifold is and how much it would benefit a FI setup like mine (ProCharged with 505 rwhp ) ?. ( Would this require a re-tune ? ) .
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,394
Likes: 6
From: Melbourne FL
Originally Posted by mdhmi
Thanks Phil. I'm getting excited. Any idea how much $$ the 90 mm TB/manifold is and how much it would benefit a FI setup like mine (ProCharged with 505 rwhp ) ?. ( Would this require a re-tune ? ) .
Thanks,
Mark
Thanks,
Mark
QUOTE:
"ok...no idea why the last 5 posts ended up on top of mine...but w/e
Talking to another shop that has been testing this on an engine dyno had found some interesting results.
From back to back runs between LS6 and LS2 here is what I was told
Stock motor: pretty much no gain except for a tiny increase past 5,000 rpm of a couple of horse
stock cubed motor, aggressive heads/cam: small increase through powerband, and about a 7 to 8 hp increase past 4500 rpm
big cube motor (im assuming 400+ cid): nice gain thru powerband and up to 17~20hp past ~4200-4500
Now remember, these figures are on an engine dyno so you have to calculate in drivetrain loss to find RWHP gains." END QUOTE.
So I will be holding off doing any purchasing until the LS2's in the hands of the tuners and I can confirm or deny the above results.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 1
From: Winston Salem NC
Originally Posted by NEPTUNEBILL
Thanks Phil thats great info I have a TPIS 90mm and a Nick Williams 90mm and would love to compare to the new GM---drivability tuning is a bitch, much easier with Nicks as he designed his to limit the initial flow that is hard to compensate for with the TPIS--it looks as if you are saying that the ls2 manifold setup is superior is this in flow, performance or are you mainly speaking of drivability which is the primary concern of most of the 90mm guys--
Actually, Nick's TB does not limit flow but provides the correct amount of air for startup and cruise, much as a stock unit. What is happening with other tb makes is that as soon as the car starts to move, the RAF tables take over from the idle tables. Since too much air is provided it creates a feeling of responsiveness but is really the cause of the dreaded "Cruise Effect". You can tell it's happening, that way, by noting that when you come to a stop the RPM's hang until the idle tables take over from the RAF tables.
Joe
Last edited by gojo; Aug 6, 2004 at 07:37 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,855
Likes: 0
Thanks Joe you always have a better way of putting things I meant to say the same thing--the strokers gulp so much air that the PCM goes nuts when there is nothing to inhibit the initial rush of air thus no idle--when the NW TB opens up it is a full 90mm and sotp I could tell no diff--I intend to take it with me for the next tuning session--I heard through the grapevipe that ls1edit is not really capable of making a good idle particullarly in the AC area but there are codes in the base PCM that can only be reached by the GM program where there is a code that will allow the tuning of the TPIS or other--how is it that the ls2 90mm setup will work on the ls1--I know it will fit with some jury rigging but will it run---I have to assume its the programming in the new PCM which also contains the TPS which is no longer a seperate computer---if we used the Fbody cable setup couldn't we adjust idle manually more or less, it would seem this could be the answer to some of it of the PCM would still have to regulate AFand Timing etc in the low r's--anyway its a pisser without a good idle--fortunately Nick also adj my program for the TPIS but the NW idle air on or off is far superior--
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 1
From: Winston Salem NC
Bill,
Your right. It has been a problem getting the cars to run the same whether the A/C is on or off. LS1 Edit has just added a new table to allow for airflow adjustment with the A/C on. The 97 and 98's don't have it. The 99 and 00's have a preset value of .500. That value can be adjusted up or down to tune if you need more or less air with the A/C on. The 01's and up have a .000 value, so you can only adjust the A/C on if it needs more air. I believe there's an A/C off table that hasn't been located in later models. At least there should be. Some cars run better with A/C on and some with it off.
Regarding idle.. It's not the problem. The car will idle at whatever RPM you set. Idle happens when your car is stopped. As soon as you start to move Running Airflow takes over. IAC's and RAF's are what need to be set correctlly for, startup RPM's and cruise RPM's. It can only be done effectively, without issues that you have to live with, if the TB is designed right.
Joe
Your right. It has been a problem getting the cars to run the same whether the A/C is on or off. LS1 Edit has just added a new table to allow for airflow adjustment with the A/C on. The 97 and 98's don't have it. The 99 and 00's have a preset value of .500. That value can be adjusted up or down to tune if you need more or less air with the A/C on. The 01's and up have a .000 value, so you can only adjust the A/C on if it needs more air. I believe there's an A/C off table that hasn't been located in later models. At least there should be. Some cars run better with A/C on and some with it off.
Regarding idle.. It's not the problem. The car will idle at whatever RPM you set. Idle happens when your car is stopped. As soon as you start to move Running Airflow takes over. IAC's and RAF's are what need to be set correctlly for, startup RPM's and cruise RPM's. It can only be done effectively, without issues that you have to live with, if the TB is designed right.
Joe
