Would anyone be interested in carrying out a "header showdown" of sorts between all the big makers someday?

I'm tired of debating between Kooks being a tough install vs LG costing $500 more vs Dynatech weighing more and bumping the steering shaft. Yet I don't feel like I truly know what HP gains you should expect in a normal situation. Too many tests aren't back to back, and theyare often on some max effort car that will help the maker claim gaint 40hp gains.

I would love to see some car at the point people typically buy headers swapped between the major brands....after intake and exhaust only.

Would anyone be interested in helping organize a comparison using:

A 2002-2004 MN6 Coupe/Vert with Only Blackwing and Maybe Z06 Ti Exhaust (common I/E mods) or 2002+ Stock Z06 and swap between:

- LGM
- Kooks
- Dynatech
- FLP
- QTP
- SW
- And any other brand...

Using the catted versions with maybe 50miles between swaps to get the computer dialed in.

What we would need:
1) An Unbiased Tuner We Trust (LAPD Willing to Help)
2) $$$ To pay the tuner for their work
3) A decision whether any tuning should occur between headers
4) A test mule car which represents what is listed above (LAPD Has a Stock 2004 Z06)
5) Support from the header makers of the tuner and test, so that we can get some units from them.

Obviously this is a project, but it would cut down on the daily BS and bickering related to headers.

Share your thoughts, but please do not turn this into a discussion of which brand is best, this thread is to discuss how to determine what brand is best in terms of HP gains. Just please stay on topic, I know this is a heated issue.

 

BQuicksilver,

We would carry out a complete header test on our new 2004 Z06 (750 miles old) if the header manufacturers gave us a set of headers. The only costs that would have to be covered would be the labor of putting the headers on and taking them off of the test vehicle and the dyno test/tuning time.

We just don't know if all of the header manufacturers would be willing to do this.

We just finished 3 weeks of testing on GHL's newest long tube headers and GHL covered all labor and dyno testing/tuning time to make it possible.

Shawn

 

You will never see this test... and if you do, it will be from a shop that sells the highest performing header (oh what a surprise...)

 

sprinter,

We sell almost every header brand out there. What is your point? We sell Kooks, LG, GHL, TPIS, SW, FLP, Dynatech, etc.

We sell all of them no matter what the dyno numbers show.

Shawn

 

It's a big task, no doubt.

If this was an easy chore it would have already been done.

LAPD is a longstanding CF supporter, and I think they're about as unbiased as a shop can be. I'm sure Shawn and company want the same as many of the rest of us, to simply know what header will make the largest gains in a controlled situation.

 

BQuicksilver,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I am sure EVERYONE wants to know which header makes the most power. There will always be skeptics out there, but we do what we can to be as unbiased as possible and we do what we can to show the forum members that come into our shop the actual car, products and dyno tests/sheets. When it comes to dyno numbers, we don't mess around, PERIOD!

Shawn

 

:::

 

Your heart seems to be in the right place BQuicksilver, but I don't think its feasable.

 

Shawn how are the GHL's stacking up so far?

 

It is quite feasible if the companies want to send the equipment to LAPD. If they do not then that tells us a lot.

 

If I were making a header I would be somewhat concerned about back room deals being made in a test situation like this.

What if one manufactor offers the TEST shop a better wholesale price and profit margin on their headers. Would the results be tainted?

 

From everthing that I have read I don't remember any of the header manufactures ever showing dyno results from just putting on headers on one particular car.
I would like to see the same test with the stinger manufactures, I was asking one of our vendors about one of the stinger manufactures claiming 20 add HP just bolting on there system, he told me unless it was more noise that I was after to keep my Z06 stinger on and put my money somewhere else.

 

boatboatboat,

The GHLs did VERY well during dyno testing and tuning sessions.

I will post complete results very soon.

If we did the test, rest assured that the results will NOT be tainted. We could careless what the deals would be. We are just interested in the dyno numbers. After all, that is why we have an in house dyno!

Shawn

 

I dont think nows the time. Thats an old war. The current battle is who makes the best tunnel plate thermo coated or uncoated. LMAO

 

I think all the hedders are pretty close but most people have their own preference. It may be determined by things like price, ease of install or even availability. The real thing here is, all the hedder manufacturing companys are doing well. Why would they open themselves up to maybe being listed low on results. Don't think we will see it ?

 

good idea

 

I think there is a lot more to this than people think. There are waayyy too many varibles... bolt on, test, replace, test... isn't enough.

Let's say we try this on a stock Vette... Humm.... 1997 or 2001, wait what about the Z06?? They are all going to result in different numbers. Some headers are going to perform better in the 500 rwhp range and may be worse in the 325 rwhp range. What about after market mufflers... GHL, Borla, High Flow cats, no cats... all of these things will effect the numbers.

Then theres the number games... take a stock vette of your choice. Do a base line dyno and get x wrhp. Install headers and get x+ wrhp, now tune it and get x++ wrhp... What rwhp do you think gets reported and posted?? What would be the rwhp of the base if that was tuned before the header were installed?? How lean or rich is the fuel to create the higher numbers.

So you may be able to do test ... but it will not provide enough info to be useful for all.

 

Exactly. Header A may get 28 RWHP/ 32 RWTQ at an A/F of 12.8:1. Header B might do the same but at a slightly leaner A/F ratio. Question is how lean is too lean? Depends on who you ask. Some may feel comfortable running a tad lean, others may not. Which header is better?? And then header C might get the 28 RWHP/32 RWTQ with no tuning on one car, but only 19 RWHP/25RWTQ on mine with no tuning.

Also what about the people who have access to 94 octane pump gas vs 91 octane in Cali. Way too many variables.

Starting to take shape yet????? I'd bet that more often than not, I can get just as much hp/torque on a dynojet with one long tube header vs another if I have a good tuner.

 

I think this is an excellent idea. Heck, I don't have a lot of money but I would be willing to pitch in a few $$ to help carry out this experiment. As far as control. I think maybe some rules be applied. Whose rules? Well, lets make them gentlemen rules. Shawn seems like an honest guy and a straight shooter. He takes his stock vette with stock tune and gets a base line RWHP and TQ. Install a set of hears and dyno with no tuning. Then tune to a set AFR. Dyno again. This is my example not suggestion. Lets say three pulls averaged for stock baseline, 3 average pulls stock with headers, and 3 pulls averaged after tuning. Log the results, take the headers off, return stock tune (maybe even dyno again to show return stock) add headers and repeat the process. I think the Z06 exhaust should be the standard. Heck, use a stock C5 exhaust. I do agree they should be catted since most of us require cats. Yes, there are a billion different variables with different exhausts but at least you set a GM exhaust control keeping one exhaust. No exact science but it sure seems like a few people fear the test. Why? Shawn already says he sells them all so what would it matter. I think it is a good idea. Heck, maybe two indepent tuners to it and just see how they compare. This is very interesting.

Jim K.

 

Wow!!! Here's a great chance for everyone to quantify some real gains and to see, from an independant source, what the differences are between the various headers.

So come on guys, donate some headers. How many of you out there have them laying on the floor waiting for "the time" to install them.

Any takers from the MFG's? LAPD is offering a chance for a head to head shoot out to put at least some of the arguments to rest.

If you don't trust the numbers posted by the tuners, here is a chance to either prove or disprove the claims.

EXCELLENT IDEA!!!!