[Z06] Need advice, track days
#1
Need advice, track days
Question for you track guys: I just bought a 2003 Z06, 13k miles, which really stung to buy cause I didn't get a car loan. So, I want to take it to Watkins Glen for track days, but do the minimum this year-- safely. That's an old track with no runoff in a couple of spots, so good brakes are a must. The car came with older street tires on chrome wheels, and the original wheels in boxes. I plan on buying a good street tire for the track and using the Z06 wheels. What's the minimum I can get away with at the Glen? I've only done 2 track days, a long time ago. Will the stock brakes go away at the Glen? Please be specific--like what brand, etc brake pads. Thanks!
#2
Safety Car
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Shenandoah Valley Virginia
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Check out the AutoX and Road Racing section of the forum. There is MUCH good information there for the beginner. For starters you need to do the following prior to your first track day at the Glen.
Change brake fluid to high temp variety - Motul or ATE Blue
For a beginner the stock Z06 pads are a good compromise - make sure that you have at least 50% thickness remaining.
Fresh tires - not sticky race rubber - just a good quality warm weather street tire.
With the age of the car even with the low miles, I would recommend a total fluid change with synthetics - trans, diff, engine & clutch prior to tracking the car.
I ran two events at the Glen when I was starting with this configuration and had no problems with brake fade. As you get faster, cooling ducts, SS lines and higher temp pads like Carboteks or Hawks will be necessary.
Change brake fluid to high temp variety - Motul or ATE Blue
For a beginner the stock Z06 pads are a good compromise - make sure that you have at least 50% thickness remaining.
Fresh tires - not sticky race rubber - just a good quality warm weather street tire.
With the age of the car even with the low miles, I would recommend a total fluid change with synthetics - trans, diff, engine & clutch prior to tracking the car.
I ran two events at the Glen when I was starting with this configuration and had no problems with brake fade. As you get faster, cooling ducts, SS lines and higher temp pads like Carboteks or Hawks will be necessary.
#3
Race Director
Question for you track guys: I just bought a 2003 Z06, 13k miles, which really stung to buy cause I didn't get a car loan. So, I want to take it to Watkins Glen for track days, but do the minimum this year-- safely. That's an old track with no runoff in a couple of spots, so good brakes are a must. The car came with older street tires on chrome wheels, and the original wheels in boxes. I plan on buying a good street tire for the track and using the Z06 wheels. What's the minimum I can get away with at the Glen? I've only done 2 track days, a long time ago. Will the stock brakes go away at the Glen? Please be specific--like what brand, etc brake pads. Thanks!
#4
Want to thank you guys so much. Theres so much out there its hard to judge. Taking in the comment on how old these cars are, I ordered new stainless flex lines, and ATE blue fluid. The Glen is a great track, but I took my ERA Cobra there and going down into the boot you are WOT straight at an armco/tire wall, then make about a 110 degree left--my instructor made me go right to the edge, and he Cobra petal eventually went all the way to the floor, brake scoops and all. Just want worry free fun and you guys have been very helpful.
#6
Safety Car
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f117/...upport-108924/
In addition to that, I bought a torso harness for like $30 shipped.
http://www.amazon.com/G-Force-4290BK.../dp/B0059J984Q
I hear there's a washer mod to keep the back of the seat from flopping around, but keep forgetting to research it. So for $30 you're not worrying about flying out of your seat and can better concentrate on driving. Do that, pads, and all fluids as suggested and have a good time. One more thing if you're so inclined is to remove the radiator and spray it and the AC condenser out and refill your cooling system with about 33% coolant and a bottle of water wetter.
#7
Racer
I do agree though that a full cage is truly the best way to go, just don't go advising people to NOT install other safety devices simply because there is a one-in-a-(thousand?) chance of it not working correctly.
#8
Safety Car
I just can't see a harness bar that uses 2 pre-existing bolts as being substantial enough to provide an increase in safety. The stresses that a harness bar puts on those fasteners is totally different than how the factory does and I'm just not convinced that these aftermarket companies have put enough thought into their bars. The harness bar puts so much more force on the bolt than the factory 3 point belts ever could when it acts as a lever arm in a collision. To add to it, I saw a guy bring his Subie to the track and he had a Scroth 4 point harness. It wasn't NASA legal and IMO it shouldn't have been anything legal, at least not the way it was installed. You could bend the mounting bracket for the harness just by tugging the belt by hand. It was obviously a universal belt, but some forum vendor peddled it as a direct install kit for a Subaru and the forces exerted on the mount were perpendicular to what they should have been. That's why I don't buy into the marketing hype because some of these guys are out to make a buck and that's it, catering only to the waxers and hard parkers. Now if you could show some evidence of some Corvette specific harness bars that aren't $600+ and are worth a damn, I'm all ears. Don't get the idea that this is a pissing contest, because that's not my intent, despite some strong sentiments above. I really don't want to derail the OP's thread but I feel this information is quite relevant for him to make an informed decision.
#9
IMHO there is no downside to a harness bar and belts and a big upside. I have been to dozens of track day events and it is obvious that the faster the group the more likely it is you will see 5/6 point belts (with harness bars and cages). As someone who spun at 120mph at RA and hit the wall, I can tell you that those 5 point belts really work!
#10
Check out http://hardbarusa.com and if you Goggle C5 harness bar you will find reputable vendors like Sparco, Vetteworks, Brey Kraus and others selling bars that do work. Granted ,if you totally mangle the car then all bets are off. As an aside, I learned a lot about tracking a corvette from Henry Gilbert (Gilbert Racing and Sports Car Driving Experience) and all of his corvettes (DE only cars) have harness bars and 5 point belts. Best of luck with your new hobby/car.
#12
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Oct 2002
Location: Cleveland OH
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St. Jude Donor '11,'13
Question for you track guys: I just bought a 2003 Z06, 13k miles, which really stung to buy cause I didn't get a car loan. So, I want to take it to Watkins Glen for track days, but do the minimum this year-- safely. That's an old track with no runoff in a couple of spots, so good brakes are a must. The car came with older street tires on chrome wheels, and the original wheels in boxes. I plan on buying a good street tire for the track and using the Z06 wheels. What's the minimum I can get away with at the Glen? I've only done 2 track days, a long time ago. Will the stock brakes go away at the Glen? Please be specific--like what brand, etc brake pads. Thanks!
Brembo LCF600
LCF600 is the newest brake fluid on the market. Excellent choice for track use. Proven low compressibility. It gives a firmer pedal feel then most other brands.
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.50 Liter/ 500ml
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MOTUL RBF600
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.50 Liter/ 500ml
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Carbotech XP10 $212 Carbotech XP8 $166 Less 5%forum pricing.
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Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
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Adam Adelstein
Amp’D Autosport.com
Internet's largest retailer of Carbotech Performance Brake Pads.
PH:216-780-8825.
Email: sales@ampdautosport.com
Web Site & Direct ordering http://ampdautosport.com/
All major CC and Pay Pal accepted.
Check out Promo code:z28
#13
Le Mans Master
Check out the AutoX and Road Racing section of the forum. There is MUCH good information there for the beginner. For starters you need to do the following prior to your first track day at the Glen.
Change brake fluid to high temp variety - Motul or ATE Blue
For a beginner the stock Z06 pads are a good compromise - make sure that you have at least 50% thickness remaining.
Fresh tires - not sticky race rubber - just a good quality warm weather street tire.
With the age of the car even with the low miles, I would recommend a total fluid change with synthetics - trans, diff, engine & clutch prior to tracking the car.
I ran two events at the Glen when I was starting with this configuration and had no problems with brake fade. As you get faster, cooling ducts, SS lines and higher temp pads like Carboteks or Hawks will be necessary.
Change brake fluid to high temp variety - Motul or ATE Blue
For a beginner the stock Z06 pads are a good compromise - make sure that you have at least 50% thickness remaining.
Fresh tires - not sticky race rubber - just a good quality warm weather street tire.
With the age of the car even with the low miles, I would recommend a total fluid change with synthetics - trans, diff, engine & clutch prior to tracking the car.
I ran two events at the Glen when I was starting with this configuration and had no problems with brake fade. As you get faster, cooling ducts, SS lines and higher temp pads like Carboteks or Hawks will be necessary.
#14
Drifting
I just can't see a harness bar that uses 2 pre-existing bolts as being substantial enough to provide an increase in safety. The stresses that a harness bar puts on those fasteners is totally different than how the factory does and I'm just not convinced that these aftermarket companies have put enough thought into their bars. The harness bar puts so much more force on the bolt than the factory 3 point belts ever could when it acts as a lever arm in a collision. To add to it, I saw a guy bring his Subie to the track and he had a Scroth 4 point harness. It wasn't NASA legal and IMO it shouldn't have been anything legal, at least not the way it was installed. You could bend the mounting bracket for the harness just by tugging the belt by hand. It was obviously a universal belt, but some forum vendor peddled it as a direct install kit for a Subaru and the forces exerted on the mount were perpendicular to what they should have been. That's why I don't buy into the marketing hype because some of these guys are out to make a buck and that's it, catering only to the waxers and hard parkers. Now if you could show some evidence of some Corvette specific harness bars that aren't $600+ and are worth a damn, I'm all ears. Don't get the idea that this is a pissing contest, because that's not my intent, despite some strong sentiments above. I really don't want to derail the OP's thread but I feel this information is quite relevant for him to make an informed decision.
I didn't really buy my harness bar as added "safety". I just wanted to be able to wear harnesses with my race seat.
Not everyone has a full race car. My car is a street/track car. Putting a cage in it wouldn't make much sense in that case. I'm still running full interior and drive it around on the street.
#15
I read a bunch last year about this as I took my 03 z06 to the track for the first time last fall. I had gone to the track 2 times before this in my previous car. So pretty much a noob, but i had some expectations of what I should be capable of.
I ran my car more or less as i bought it, no idea if the pads are original or proper z06 pads or not, but they were definitely not adequate for the track. I had replaced the front rotors because the ones that came on the car had a serious wear lip, i would have used them on the street for a long time, but not the track. The car had 31k on it so i assume both may have been original or the pads may have been replaced once. They stopped the car fine every time, but if I started trying to put any real heat into them, they got super streaky/pulse-ie feeling, which could be scary. The track day I ran last year is always really slow,and free(I volunteer), so I had tons of time in corners which is why I wasn't too concerned with car prep. Fluids and go.
I am still (feeling)broke from buying my car in Sept of last year. This year I am buying f/r xp10/xp8 and a mgw short shifter. Other than that the car is perfectly adequate on the track imo. So the rest of my funds will be going into hpde time. I just hope my tires last another year a little more wallet recouperation time would be awesome.
I ran my car more or less as i bought it, no idea if the pads are original or proper z06 pads or not, but they were definitely not adequate for the track. I had replaced the front rotors because the ones that came on the car had a serious wear lip, i would have used them on the street for a long time, but not the track. The car had 31k on it so i assume both may have been original or the pads may have been replaced once. They stopped the car fine every time, but if I started trying to put any real heat into them, they got super streaky/pulse-ie feeling, which could be scary. The track day I ran last year is always really slow,and free(I volunteer), so I had tons of time in corners which is why I wasn't too concerned with car prep. Fluids and go.
I am still (feeling)broke from buying my car in Sept of last year. This year I am buying f/r xp10/xp8 and a mgw short shifter. Other than that the car is perfectly adequate on the track imo. So the rest of my funds will be going into hpde time. I just hope my tires last another year a little more wallet recouperation time would be awesome.
Last edited by Socko; 01-21-2013 at 11:57 AM.
#16
Drifting
One comment, I agree that stock z06 brake pads will be fine, but NOT the ceramic ones. If you're not sure what's on there, get a new set of stock c5 z06 semi-metallic pads.
#17
Safety Car
My Sparco harness bar also has two supporting bars that mount to the rear seat mount as additional support.
I didn't really buy my harness bar as added "safety". I just wanted to be able to wear harnesses with my race seat.
Not everyone has a full race car. My car is a street/track car. Putting a cage in it wouldn't make much sense in that case. I'm still running full interior and drive it around on the street.
I didn't really buy my harness bar as added "safety". I just wanted to be able to wear harnesses with my race seat.
Not everyone has a full race car. My car is a street/track car. Putting a cage in it wouldn't make much sense in that case. I'm still running full interior and drive it around on the street.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2896572
Below, read post #6, he pretty much sums it up.
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f4/wh...ars-bad-18155/
I could dig up dozens more cases, and you guys could probably throw just as many back at me. I'm not interested in the guy who got lucky and his harness bar survived, the fact of the matter is their design is inherently flawed. They're designed to be unintrusive to the interior and be easy enough for any idiot to install, that way they sell more. They load the existing hardware in a way it was never designed to be and in the event of a crash, the hardware is far more likely to fail than if it had the load on it that it was designed for. I'd love to be proven wrong as it would save me serious money getting harnesses into my ride, but the only answers we'll get are "well this driving school uses them, are you smarter than a driving school"? Apparently so. I'd hate for the OP, who may be impressionable at this point, to simply buy into the harness bar hype not realizing it's good for nothing more than autocross.
#18
I'm in Binghamton area, and found a fantastic resource in the local Corvette club--seasoned instructors, mechanical engineers, with much experience. At the Glen comes Trackmasters, Genessee BMW club, Phoenix CMR, NASA, and Hooked on Driving. Between all that and these great forums, there is so much experience to tap. The comments specific to the Z06, and Watkins Glen, are really helpful. Even when they debate specifics, it's very helpful.
#19
Le Mans Master
The thread you linked to discussed roof crush. That's a separate issue from loads on the fasteners/B-billar hoop.