All of these comments are relevant. Some of us may own a part of GM and not see this as a bad thing. The evolution of industry is a direct relation to technology and efficiencies. If a company can create the same product with one person instead of two, why shouldn't they?

The economy is a machine with lots of parts. I am sure everyone has an opinion about what has the most impact. You want to see a disaster, wait until fuel hits $6/gallon.

 

GM's problems are many, but the fundamental problem is that with a few exceptions, most of the fleet is comprised of cars that nobody but a rental agency could love.

It's a shame.

 

CNBC published an article that is very critical of Waggoner and the missed opportunity to attack the issues. Look for further problems with the current management team.

 

I disagree. What is hurting GM is They don't design beautiful Cars {like they did in the 50's & 60's}, They make FWD 6 Cyl SS models? Come on! The interiors {Where you spend most of your time are uncomfortable and cheap looking}. But I think the thing that hurt's them more than anything is the Customer Service.

I own a Lexus LS430 and an "05 C6. Lexus comes to my house, brings me a Car, flatbeds my Car to the dealer for service. Alway's Good Morning Mr. Lucky, Are you completely satisfied Mr. Lucky, Is there anything else we can do Mr. Lucky? Thank you Mr. Lucky. Deliver me back my Car on time and detailed. No dings, dents, scratches.

While it may be impossible to go to that extreme with Cobalts and Malibu's they have a long way to go to get to Customer Service level of their Competition. Toyota and Honda.

GET WITH IT GM!!!!!!!

There is a reason why people pay marked up over sticker prices for foreign Car's like Toyota! Sorry GM, the "health plans & retirement pension's excuse blah, blah, blah" doesn't cut it. Quit the Excuse Management and get back to where you once were. The Biggest and the Best!

People want Cool Car's. {Period!}. People want Quality Car's. {Period!}. People want to be treated Special. {Period!}.

It's Simple.

Thank goodness they still got one, and it's the Corvette!!!! That sector is doing it Right. Maybe there's a lesson there.

C64lucky

 

Have to agree. My wife's car is a 2005 Solara Convertible.. Toyota has been OUTSTANDING.. They pick up the car at her work and deliver it back before the day is through so she doesnt have to go in late.. If there is a problem that takes more then a day to remedy.. we get a LOANER.. Dont get that kind of service with ANYTHING made by GM.. ANYTHING.. and my vette cost almost double her car.. Sad but true..

I read earlier in the thread that "It takes 2 to sign a contract" That is very true.. to a point. Union negotiations are extremely one sided.. it goes like this.. Sign this or we strike.. What will cost GM more money.. paying a wage increase or Zero workforce building product.. Even if they strike for a little while.. eventually the company caves..

Unions need to be disbanded.. As a business owner i would never hire union employees and i dont give a crap if i had a big inflatable rat blown up in front of my shop.. i am not dealing with union people.. they are overpaid and mostly lazy because they know they have some sort of job protection.

The person i hire is the person who is willing to work for what they receive and be grateful they receive it because its a tough world out there.. and its cutthroat..

 

It takes two to tango...it is going to even get more competitive...so both need to change their thinking.

 

The STRONGEST point here is that GM "customer service" is a REALLY BAD area. I stressed that point in my first post. Even when you buy a $50,000.00 car, they treat customers like dirt.

They need to learn to treat their customers with better service.

The SECOND strongest point is that GM needs to improve INTERIOR quality. It has been a problem for decades. They just recently have been doing better BUT their is room for improvement.

Will GM take the route of Chrysler?

Remember what happened to them? Chrysler is NO LONGER an American company. It is owned by DAIMLER, which is a GERMAN company....

 

Most negative experiences are blown way out of proportion.Though the dealers in fact have issues,most have a 97%+
CSI (customer service index) rating.If they didnt,they we be out of business

 

Some interesting facts; that it appears most do not understand.

In Defense of General Motors
Our Buy American Mention of the Week!
by Roger Simmermaker
May 7, 2005
Defense, defense, defense. That's all that General Motors, and Detroit in general, can play these days. Many American car and truck buyers, and many of those in the media who write about their buying habits, should know better than to spew their venom at GM for their recent financial troubles.
It might be different if the reasons that GM continues to lose market share weren't largely beyond their control, but they are. As an increasing number of Americans spend their money on and drive around in Toyotas and Hondas, the answer to the question "Why doesn't GM have the money to build a car more to my liking?" seems to evade them.

As if the impending health care crisis in America was no clue at all, some even bring up the fact that GM spends over $1,500 per automobile just to provide health care to their employees, retirees and their dependents. By comparison, Toyota and Honda spend only a few hundred dollars per automobile, mainly because GM has been operating in the United States since the invention of the automobile and Toyota, for instance, only built their first plant here in 1987. Yet they still accuse that GM is "living in the past" even though Cadillac now outsells Mercedes, The Chevy Impala beat the Toyota Camry in initial quality and Consumer Reports detailed how Buick now beats BMW in reliability.

But in these times where low-wage Wal-Mart has now replaced high-wage General Motors as the number one employer in the U.S., most Americans get a pass for not having the time to dig deeply enough to understand what is really going on since a large portion of America is working longer hours for lower wages and is just trying to put in enough time at work to make ends meet.

It may seem that your car-buying decision would have no effect on your personal prosperity or that of your country, but it does. It really does matter if you buy an American-made Chevrolet instead of an American-made Toyota.

When you buy an American-made Chevy, you not only support more American workers, but also American investors, owners and stockholders. When you buy an American-made Toyota, you may help your Uncle Bob if he's on Toyota's payroll, but you're hurting Uncle Sam since American companies pay about three times as many taxes to the U.S. Treasury compared to foreign-owned companies. That's something to think about the next time you hear we have to cut benefits or raise the retirement age simply because the U.S. Treasury doesn't have enough funds to meet its obligations to Social Security or other benefit programs.

General Motors doesn't have enough money to meet its obligations either. And it's for the very honorable reason that they have promised adequate health care and pensions to their workers who gave their lives to a company that has in turn supported so many American livelihoods for so long. If we stop buying GM products, we de-fund American retirees and prevent them from contributing to the American economy. Sure, you have a choice in buying a foreign car over an American one, but if you buy the foreign car, you will likely cause a retiree to make a choice between food and medicine. That very choice is a daily one for many senior citizens in this country right now.

Think it's not possible? Think again. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) has already taken over several pensions from failed American companies in the steel and airline industries and beyond. When these companies declare bankruptcy and a failure to meet their obligations, this government-funded agency - which is also running in the red - takes over and gives seniors roughly half of what they were promised by the now bankrupt company.

This results in a hidden cost to taxpayers since any shortfall in government revenue must be made up eventually in higher taxes or benefit cuts or both. So there you have it. Failure to find a GM (or other American) automobile you can stand will negatively affect your standard of living in one way or another. And you thought that since you didn't work in the car industry it didn't affect you. Think again.

The Detroit News recently published the facts, daring to go against the deceiving "foreign cars are built there and American cars are built there" rhetoric that implies it makes no difference if you buy an American-made Honda instead of an American-made Pontiac. The newspaper reported that American and foreign automakers alike were playing the "Made in USA Card" to attract buyers. And you thought consumers didn't care. Poll after poll has shown Americans are even willing to pay more to buy American, let alone when quality and price are similar or equal. Most Americans advocate fair play and equality but eventually they will find out - possibly the hard way - that neither of these attributes apply in the automobile marketplace unless those Americans that should know better start buying American cars again. I'm not asking or expecting the die-hard import buyer crowd to stop their silly griping and buy American. GM's future doesn't depend on them. It depends on those Americans that really should know better.

As the Detroit News article boldly pointed out, GM has 82 major plants in the United States, while Toyota, Honda and Nissan combined have only 24. GM has more American salaried workers than Toyota has total American workers. With 194,000 employees in America, even after hard times, General Motors still employs six times as many Americans as Toyota, seven times as many as Honda, and 12 times as many as Nissan. As Business Week pointed out in 2002 (the last data I have seen on the subject), each auto-assembly job created by an American company also creates 6.9 other American jobs, where each auto-assembly job created by a foreign company creates only 5.5 other American jobs. This is true simply because American automobile companies get more of their parts from America.

And what about those foreign transplant factories? A 1995 United Auto workers study concluded that these foreign automobile companies operating in the United States caused at least 500,000 Americans to lose their jobs. I would hate to think of what that total is today. The new May 9, 2005 issue of Business Week details how GM contributes to the pockets of their assembly workers to the tune of $8.7 billion a year and either directly or indirectly supports the employment of 900,000 Americans. Business Week also claims it is "undeniable" that what is bad for GM is bad for America, pointing to a 54-day strike in 1998 that cut that quarter’s economic growth for the entire country a whole percentage point.

Many point to bad management decisions in the past to justify their reasoning for not supporting GM, claiming it is it "widely known" that they made horrible cars in the 1970’s. Its amazing people who weren't even driving age in the 1970’s (this author wasn't) want to penalize GM for mismanagement as they overlook any mismanagement by other car companies they anxiously spend their money with instead. I have never heard anyone vehemently refuse to buy a Nissan since they almost went bankrupt in the late 1990’s. Nor do I hear people planning to penalize Japanese carmakers for the (widely known) junk they imported in the 1960's. In 1999, the Wall Street Journal reported Nissan lost millions of dollars in five of the last six years. Nissan's debt stood between $22 billion and $30 billion, which dwarfed that of any other automaker. The Wall Street Journal, which is no huge supporter of GM, claimed Nissan would be bankrupt if it happened to be an American company.
General Motors spent $5.2 billion on health care for their workers and retirees in 2004. The 2005 figure will be higher. The figure for Toyota, for instance, is certainly less since they didn’t build their first American factory until 1987. The Georgetown, KY factory, which assembles the Toyota Camry, was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company. Toyota was given 1,500 of free land. To attract this Japanese company to America, we even established a "special trade zone" so they
could import parts duty-free from Japan. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. Total federal, state and local tax incentives (read giveaways) reached $100 million - courtesy of your tax dollars and mine.

These are some of the hidden costs few think about when selecting their next car. Before the first Toyota in American was ever assembled, the American steel industry, parts industry and finance industry took it on the chin. American tax obligations were also raised to boot. Today's Camry has a 55% domestic parts content, which is down from 75% just a few years earlier. American alternatives like the Chevy Impala has a 98% domestic parts content and the aging Ford Taurus, which used to be the number
one selling car in America before the Camry took the top spot, has a 95% domestic parts content.

In the end, it doesn't matter how you slice it. General Motors pays more taxes, employs more workers, has more domestic plants, supports more families, retirees and their dependents, and has a higher overall domestic parts content than the foreign competition - hands down. American quality is on the rise. Efficiency has increased. GM kept America rolling by donating millions of dollars in cash and vehicles in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. Where was the foreign competition in America's time
of need? They were busy reaping in record profits and sending them home to reward foreign owners at the expense of an American company that built the foundation of prosperity that America as a whole enjoys.

Profits are the lifeblood of any successful company or economy. General Motors makes only a few hundred dollars of profit per vehicle compared to over a thousand dollars for their foreign rivals because GM supports such a wide and diverse number of Americans. They’ve shown their loyalty to America by extending 0% financing for several years, and through their history they’ve done more good for America than any foreign car company ever dreamed of doing. It's time for America to show their loyalty to an American company whose own increased prosperity will result in greater American prosperity as well.

So if you want General Motors to get more aggressive and on the offensive in terms of marketing, bolder car designs, etc., stop spewing your venom at them, which makes them constantly play defense instead. It's unfair, unwarranted, and unproductive. GM wants to keep America rolling - as we all should - so let it and make it happen.

 

WhiteC5vette,

Thank you for that succinct comment...

 

Unions need to be disbanded.. As a business owner i would never hire union employees and i dont give a crap if i had a big inflatable rat blown up in front of my shop.. i am not dealing with union people.. they are overpaid and mostly lazy because they know they have some sort of job protection.

The person i hire is the person who is willing to work for what they receive and be grateful they receive it because its a tough world out there.. and its cutthroat..[/QUOTE]

 

Like I am going out and buy a GM car and feel safe in it when it is being built by a guy who was a burger flipper 6 weeks ago.

 

GM has to out source because other companies are hiring cheap labor for easy work (as they should). Thus their cost are much lower. Making our cars more costly. GM has made a number of mistakes... one was keeping on so many workers in the 60's... with the promise that everyone will have a job. GM was acting like it's pay roll was welfare, they kept uneeded workers as new technology came it. Other companies down sized a decade before GM did.

Average age of employees is very high... Medical is very expensive, with out soucing you don't have to worry about this expence (or meeting environmental requirements). Go see what a health insurance policey cost for a 72 years old man that has lung cancer . If you want your company to survive, you have to keep your pricing in line with competitors... so if one company outsourses... the others have to follow... so blame it on the government... the businesses are just trying to survive.

 

GM has no one to blame but itself. These top dogs at GM..what have they been doing these past few years other than collect a paycheck?
They should have seen this coming for the past few years.

I think they should also "police" their dealerships more. If I have a compliant about a dealership and notify GM, what do they do? Send a memo to the dealership and forget about it? They should do a better job of resolving problems between customer and the dealership. Its really the people at the dealership that represents the company. If I ain't treated well I not going back.


If you take a horse to work everyday and the horse dies you find another means of transportation. You don't die with the horse.
The workers who got/or will get laid off will find something else.

This big layoff , lost of market share, and lost of money might be a good thing for GM... Force them to re-think things and get their **** together or close doors for good.

 

Great post "WhiteC5Vette"............To add to your comments, Per the June 05 Harbour Report, GM has 3 plants in the top 5 most productive auto assembly plants in North America..."1st"....4th & 5th. When it comes to pay, as a GM empoylee at my current rate of pay I will have to work 172 years to make what Wagoner made last year........

 

Right, and of course the fact that they make cars that suck deserves zero blame. Way to go with the scapegoating of blue collar Americans.

 

That's the bottom line:

1. GM is building cars that many buyers don't want-have you seen a Malibu lately-the interior just plain sucks, the exterior is as bland as can be, its' performance is hardly the state of the art. I had to rent a Impala for a short business trip last week and my back still hurts from the awful seats. How many management, salaried, or hourly employees own the product they make? When is GM going to get away from dark toned, cheap plastic, and grey colored interiors throw away vehicles?

2. Anti-Union and other infantile statements are not supported by any facts other than those made up by grumpy old farts. If an employee is bad news, document the behavior-make your case and the employee is history. The only reason crappy employees survive is poor managers not doing their job any better then the crappy employees. Trust me, I have seen Union bail on a crap employee faster than the company did!

3. Wages & Health Care costs-a lot-and it always did, but it is just one more cost of doing business, and you only hear that poor me wail of woe from Management when the public finds out what the MBA's have really been doing all this time. Just because your so-in-so's son/daughter, doesn't make you a manager any more then does a MBA. How many times have we all heard of so-in-so's son ruining the family's successful business.

4. Business sucks for big companies even in super good times. They are just too big to respond to any situation in a timely or surefooted manner. Their scales of money flows are almost beyond any one person's understanding; the USA needs GM more than GM needs the USA. That said, because of their sheer size, they should only be studied and judged over period of years if not decades. Stock holders of GM stock need to think in terms of the long run and hang in there, because GM has been through this before.

5. As bad as GM can get, remember, they built the Corvette and sell it at a price that many Union members can afford to buy the Corvette for themselves. If they can build the Corvette what is really stopping them from building cars that the rest of the masses would want to buy?

 

Well I for one have had very good experiences with my local dealer (Chevy). I didn't even buy my truck or Vette there. And today when I went to go start my service truck (GMC) with 198k miles on it...... nothing. Drove to the dealer in my DD (pontiac) asked the service manager if he could look at it and he said sure no problem I'll send a tow truck. I get a call this afternoon that its ready but I asked him to do a couple other things while its in the shop.....tune up and some general maint. Anyway, long and sort of it is that he really tried to have me back on the road today and really went out of his way. There are good dealers and bad dealers. When my Folks bought a Toyota Cressida back in the 1986 they had nothing but problems with the dealer ship. And believe me, the car broke down occasionally. Just because its a Toyota doesn't mean it won't break occasionally. Anyway, I think that some people have a misconception that a just because its an "import" its of better quality or better design. I sometimes hear about how bad the Vega's were and how bad the Citation's were etc. Well, Toyota has had few duds as well.....the Starlet, the Toyota Paseo etc. Anyway, this GMC van has been pretty good, in the 198k miles besides the normal replacement of tires and brakes and tune ups, the only things I have had fail were a starter and a water pump and a fuel pump and a couple of wheel bearings. Thats not bad considering the weight and the constant use. I'll be buying a new van soon and it will be either a Chevy or a GMC. The one saving grace for GM is that the financial arm GMAC is doing very well. I for one hope they are around for a long time to come and if they restructure the company correctly they should be. Oh, one last thing "Flame suit on".

 

Same thing has, is happening to the British auto industry for the same reasons. It killed the British motorcycle industry.

 

Hard to catch up after you've been passed...