[QUOTE=SMJBA]I guess that my memory just isn't up to Canadian standards.....

 

All I was saying is it seems like almost every used car in the states is sold almost like an "as is" where you don't know what your getting (unless you do the work yourself to find out with carfax, machanic etc..)..The "certification" in Canada is better then the states is all..Like somebody else said in this thread "who says you need to disclose everything" when selling..Well if that doesn't scare you away from buying a sports car then as a joke I have a 03 vette 4 sale that has never been driven over 35mph...Please, most people run the sh*# out of there vette when it comes closer to selling it or please tell me again why people need 400hp if they only drive it using 150hp of it..

 

I thought they were COPO camaros, etc., not COFO ?? Course, I could be wrong.

 

I can almost guarantee you can get a lemon law for this car. If you have had a same problem 3 times than your car qualifies for a lemon law. As long as the car is not older than 1 year. You can ask for a new car. If they give you a hard time ask for the owner of the company and tell him you will contact a lemon law attorney. Make sure you have it document on the dealers repair orders that it has been taken back for the same problem 3 times.

In 1996 I had a problem with the cars alignment and after the 3rd complaint in 3 months they gave me a new car.

Good Luck keep us updated.

 

As a long-time member of NCRS, I can tell you that "numbers-matching" DID NOT go away twenty-five years ago. NCRS is now judging Corvettes from 53 to the C4s (1989), and "numbers matching" (originality) IS still very important to collectors. As long as there are people who really love keeping their cars as original as possible, I expect each succeeding Corvette generation to be added to the NCRS rolls.

However, in order for the engine originality to make a difference to you, you'll probably have to keep the car for at least 15 years before it has any effect on value. My NCRS membership not withstanding, I would definitely go for the new engine in your position if given the opportunity. Previous comments about good engine rebuilders being rare, and rebuilt engines not be being the same as new, are very true. Go for the new engine and don't look back.

Edit: NCRS...National Corvette Restorers Society. The organization that sets the standard for going the extra mile in blood, sweat, and tears to obtain an original appearance or maintain originality in classic Corvettes.

 

The vehicle has to be in the dealer for at least 30 days for the same problem to even be elgiable for FILING for the lemon law. Even after that its not easy at all. VERY difficult to get your money back.

 

I was faced with a similar problem last year. I was building a forged engine for my supercharger setup, and had to decide to either A - use the original block and delay the project, or B - get a new block and build from scratch. I went with the new block. I can tell you this, I did a visual inspection of the original engine when it was removed from the car, and the stampings on the block DID NOT match the VIN number of my C5. It is my understanding that you can match these stampings as far as type of car and model year, but I am unclear as to whether there is some sort of cross-reference between the engine's casting number, and the chassis VIN number. In other words, if I did not tell you that my block was not stock, there is no way you can tell. Perhaps the NCRS guy can shed some light on these facts?

If it were me, I would go for the new engine

 

On the older cast iron small blocks, there is a "pad" that extends from the block below the front of the RH (passenger side) head.

This pad has two stamps, one on each end of the pad...a "build stamp" and a VIN derivative stamp; the build stamp identifies the plant that built the engine, the date it was built, and an alphabetic code that identifies the application, e.g. the horsepower, the transmission, maybe if it had TI (transitor ignition). I don't know, but I suspect the stamp pad remains in that same location for the new engines.

The engine, and other major components, is required to be stamped with the VIN by law. I believe the practice of stamping engine blocks and other major parts with the VIN was begun by Corvette back in the late fifties or early sixties BEFORE it was mandated by law. Somewhere on new Corvette engines is a stamp that identifies the original VIN...it may include only the serial number portion of the VIN, i.e. the last eight digits like 551XXXXX

In the early nineties, I had the chance to steal an 87 Corvette, and the guy took me up on my offer. I kept the car about three years, and during the entire time, I never had sufficient curiosity to remove enough accessories, drive belts, hoses, etc. to see if the car had the original engine stamps in the usual place. All I knew was, original or not, that car ran like a scalded dog and I loved it.

 

JmpnJckFlsh -

I hate to question you on your comment about the VIN # matching the block by law... But would like to get to the bottom of this question for the new C5 and C6 cars. When the original LS1 engine was out of my car, I took some high quality digital shots of the block (all sides). "THE ONLY" numbers that were stamped on the block are show below in this photo, and they clearly do not contain my VIN number (which happens to end in 832).



If you zoom in, the stamping on the block reads "12559378" and on the other side you can clearly see 5.7L.

Now please explain this to me???

Thanks

 

Sorry to hear about your problem. I don't think it would hurt resale, to the extent you'll have the engine history documentation, etc. If we were talking about a classic with matching #'s, etc., would be more of an issue, but none the less...I would say with the proper Chev documentation, minimal. I just hope you get the problem resolved quickly. I can only imagine how you must feel. Hang in there

 

Show a pic of the other side of the motor.
Corvette engines have the last six digits of the VIN stamped on the block just ahead of the cylinder head on the right-hand side combined with a three-letter engine code suffix
Also cast into the top rear of the block is a four-symbol code indicating when the engine was built
The first letter of the date code shows the month the block was cast
The one or two numbers shows the month
The last digit shows the year.

 

The numbers shown in that pic are "cast in" not stamped. You would need to be looking for stamped numbers.

 

I guess I don't understand how someone signing a piece of paper saying "I really realy promise that I didn't drive my 2003 Corvette very hard" means that you are getting a car that has never been driven hard. Disclosures are worth little more than the paper they are printed on. To resolve a false claim you would have to sue. Most people aren't going to pay a lawyer $10,000 to resolve a $5,000 issue. So, tell me how signing a form assures the buyer that he is getting a better car? What, people in Canada don't lie?

 

Need-for-speed is absolutely correct. You should be looking for "stamped" numbers. Since each individual engine has to be identified with the VIN, casting a unique id number into every block is an unreasonable manufacturing complication with no gain.

That "cast-in" number in your photo is a CASTING NUMBER; it is like a part number, and in some cases, the casting number will be identical to the part number. You can go down to your Chevy dealer with that casting number, and he will probably be able to order you a identical replacement block with NO OTHER INFORMATION. ALL Corvettes, for at least that model year, will have exactly the same casting number at exactly the same location. If there are no changes in the block design, that same casting number may be used for several years.

You are looking at the wrong end for the VIN derivative stamp; see if you have some pictures from the front end. Note my comments from the earlier post:

On the older cast iron small blocks, there is a "pad" that extends from the block below the front of the RH (passenger side) head...I don't know, but I suspect the stamp pad remains in that same location for the new engines.

 

I appreciate all of the help guys, and please understand that I am not trying to hi-jack the original thread, just trying to add some value here.

As requested, here's a shot of the block from the front side (the side with the timing gear). I was not able to locate any marking on this end, maybe you all will know where to look. Again, in hi-quality for zoom in purposes

 

I appreciate all of the help guys, and please understand that I am not trying to hi-jack the original thread, just trying to add some value here.

As for hijacking the thread, I don't think that is a concern. abetaque either has enough commentary to make an informed decision or he's hopelessly confused. If what you say is true, and I'm beginning to think that it is true, abetaque will have even more reason to go for the new engine and not look back.

As requested, here's a shot of the block from the front side (the side with the timing gear). I was not able to locate any marking on this end, maybe you all will know where to look.

Based on my knowledge of older Corvettes, I would expect the VIN derivative to be stamped on the aluminum flange area in front of the passenger side head, and directly to the left of what appears to be a rectangular water pump passage. Even though the picture is not at a good angle, it doesn't appear that there is any stamping at that location. If I'm wrong about this, it won't be the first time I've been an ignorant .

It is possible that GM has changed the way they identify the engines and that they are long longer (permanently) hand stamped. I still believe that the federal government requires that engines, transmissions, etc. be identified with the VIN, but it is possible that manufacturers have convinced the supervising agencies that new technology is perfectly adequate for this task.

The reason I say this is because the topic of engine id and build date came up during the infamous balancer bolt problem. I searched those old threads to see how the engines were identified by build date. The thread below has a post by Brett Hunter showing a brand new LS2 on a pallet with two plastic(?) labels; one on the front driver side oil pan and the other on the rear of the driver side head. These labels have the julian date of the engine build, and maybe more build info. Is it possible that the plant also uses the same type labels for the VIN id, and on your engine all those labels were lost?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...N&forum_id=101

 

the stamped numbers are VERY faint and are very hard to see from an angle, especially a camera angle. Also they are very small. From the pics provided its impossible to see it. The pic has to be taken from ABOVE the block.

 

You right if you think its not going to make a difference in a new c6. You are bigtime wrong if you think they quit comparing vin and eng. numbers in collector cars. Theres A BIG DIFFERENCE IN A 70 corvette with a 454 original and a one with a replacement.

 

Here's a sample of the lemon law as it applies in Maryland:
"#

1. If, during the warranty period, the manufacturer or factory branch, its agent, or its authorized dealer is unable to repair or correct any defect or condition that substantially impairs the use and market value of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer or factory branch, at the option of the consumer, shall:

1. Replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle acceptable to the consumer; or

2. Accept return of the motor vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price including all license fees, registration fees, and any similar governmental charges, less:

1. A reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle not to exceed 15 percent of the purchase price; and


2. A reasonable allowance for damage not attributable to normal wear but not to include damage resulting from a nonconformity, defect, or condition.

...

It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to the applicable warranties if:

1. The same nonconformity, defect, or condition has been subject to repair 4 or more times by the manufacturer or factory branch, or its agents or authorized dealers, within the warranty period but such nonconformity, defect, or condition continues to exist;


2. The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of 1 or more nonconformities, defects, or conditions for a cumulative total of 30 or more days during the warranty period; or


"
From this page: http://www.yourlemonlawrights.com/

Good luck.

 

well I have to say something to that. HELL YEAH!!! Those cars without matching #'s are worth around half.
And whoever said the old fart collectors are gone, your mostly correct. Its a younger crowd thats collecting these classics. They have the money and they want MATCHING #'s.