Warming engine before starting
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,841
Likes: 19
From: CLT, North Carolina
Cold Engines- My .02
I build race engines and we do a lot of testing and development work. One test we did a while back was to find out how much more power a cold engine delivered over a hot engine. We did preheat the oil but started a stone cold engine on the dyno and immediately went to a full power sweep to 9500 RPM with it. It was indeed better for power. Our tests concluded that engines don't like heat if you are looking for maximum power. I would guess the benefit was derived from the colder inlet air temperature as there was no heat in the engine to be dissapated into it. The engine didn't seem to mind it and subsequent teardown revealed nothing out of the ordinary.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,488
Likes: 27
From: Long Island NY
It's all good 
I just have to say this again... I may be a little nuts and overly **** with this mechanical stuff, but I'm still not as bad as the guys who wax their cars 3 times a day! I guess we're all neurotic in our own ways.
I'm glad I posted this heater business though because it has helped me to see how overly careful, to the point of ridiculousness, I can be. But hey, this is the most I ever spent on any vehicle, and I really love the car, so I suppose I'm allowed to be a little crazy, at least within the first few weeks of ownership.
At least I haven't waxed it 15 times already! 
Now excuse me while I go bring some milk and cookies down to my C6. Then a bedtime story and a good tuck under the sheets. Maybe an extra half hour of Speed TV tonight since she was on good behavior today
I just have to say this again... I may be a little nuts and overly **** with this mechanical stuff, but I'm still not as bad as the guys who wax their cars 3 times a day! I guess we're all neurotic in our own ways.
I'm glad I posted this heater business though because it has helped me to see how overly careful, to the point of ridiculousness, I can be. But hey, this is the most I ever spent on any vehicle, and I really love the car, so I suppose I'm allowed to be a little crazy, at least within the first few weeks of ownership.
At least I haven't waxed it 15 times already! Now excuse me while I go bring some milk and cookies down to my C6. Then a bedtime story and a good tuck under the sheets. Maybe an extra half hour of Speed TV tonight since she was on good behavior today
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,734
Likes: 0
From: Vacaville California
Originally Posted by Vet
It's all good
I just have to say this again... I may be a little nuts and overly **** with this mechanical stuff, but I'm still not as bad as the guys who wax their cars 3 times a day! I guess we're all neurotic in our own ways.
I'm glad I posted this heater business though because it has helped me to see how overly careful, to the point of ridiculousness, I can be. But hey, this is the most I ever spent on any vehicle, and I really love the car, so I suppose I'm allowed to be a little crazy, at least within the first few weeks of ownership. At least I haven't waxed it 15 times already!
Now excuse me while I go bring some milk and cookies down to my C6. Then a bedtime story and a good tuck under the sheets. Maybe an extra half hour of Speed TV tonight since she was on good behavior today
I just have to say this again... I may be a little nuts and overly **** with this mechanical stuff, but I'm still not as bad as the guys who wax their cars 3 times a day! I guess we're all neurotic in our own ways.
I'm glad I posted this heater business though because it has helped me to see how overly careful, to the point of ridiculousness, I can be. But hey, this is the most I ever spent on any vehicle, and I really love the car, so I suppose I'm allowed to be a little crazy, at least within the first few weeks of ownership.
At least I haven't waxed it 15 times already! Now excuse me while I go bring some milk and cookies down to my C6. Then a bedtime story and a good tuck under the sheets. Maybe an extra half hour of Speed TV tonight since she was on good behavior today
at least you know your nuts
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,709
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
St. Jude Donor '06
Take it from an Alaskan Sourdough...If you want to do this right, install an oil pan heater and a block (freeze plug) heater. These have been around for many years and work great at pre-warming both the coolant and oil without risking an engine fire.
These heaters have been in use for many years in really cold climates like Alaska and Minnesota and work great.
These heaters have been in use for many years in really cold climates like Alaska and Minnesota and work great.
Last edited by C6Monty; Dec 3, 2005 at 10:44 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,896
Likes: 3
From: New Bern NC
If you do any flying do you start up and take off or do you wait until the temp is in the green? I feel better with it in the green. I also feel better with the vette a little warm before hitting the expressway.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,311
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles CA
Stick a big bucket under the car and **** in the engine compartment - it will warm it up real good! 
But seriously: I thought they sold those engine blankets that keep the block warm for the real cold climates - wouldnt that do the job?
But seriously: I thought they sold those engine blankets that keep the block warm for the real cold climates - wouldnt that do the job?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,611
Likes: 5
From: Thousand Oaks California
Originally Posted by Vet
By "therman incident", do you mean a fire, or...? Are you telling me that the cold aluminum oil pan could crack due to placing a focused heat source under it? (I am not a physicist, please enlighten me.)
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 25,009
Likes: 2,707
From: Far NW 'burbs of Chicago
St. Jude Donor '13
The engines used in light airplanes will experience "extreme wear" if started below 0'F without preheating, that's a quote from either Lycoming or Continental.
So almost 20 years ago I decided that cold starts were probably bad for ANY engine and resolved to do something about it for my cars. I installed factory block heaters in our 3 cars: Ford Taurus, Toyota Corolla, and a 1987 Cararo Z28. If the temp in our garage was below 40'F, I would plug in the heater about an hour before starting the car. If the temp would be below 20'F, I would leave the heater on overnight.
The cars always started easily. And within 3 years, ALL THREE of them suffered a head gasket failure. That might have been just a bad coincidence, but after the third problem I ditched the heaters and switched to Mobil1 5W-30 during winter, and haven't had any cold-related problems since then.
Mobil1 0W-30 and 5W-30 are equally good down to something like
-30'F, below that the 0w has a slight advantage. Per telephone call to Mobil tech specialist.
In moderate weather I start and drive away as soon as I fasten the seat belt, etc. Cold weather I'll idle for about a minute. In any weather, I drive gently until the OIL temp is up to 100'F, and won't hammer the engine until the oil gets to 180'. Which takes a LOOONG time during winter.
So almost 20 years ago I decided that cold starts were probably bad for ANY engine and resolved to do something about it for my cars. I installed factory block heaters in our 3 cars: Ford Taurus, Toyota Corolla, and a 1987 Cararo Z28. If the temp in our garage was below 40'F, I would plug in the heater about an hour before starting the car. If the temp would be below 20'F, I would leave the heater on overnight.
The cars always started easily. And within 3 years, ALL THREE of them suffered a head gasket failure. That might have been just a bad coincidence, but after the third problem I ditched the heaters and switched to Mobil1 5W-30 during winter, and haven't had any cold-related problems since then.
Mobil1 0W-30 and 5W-30 are equally good down to something like
-30'F, below that the 0w has a slight advantage. Per telephone call to Mobil tech specialist.
In moderate weather I start and drive away as soon as I fasten the seat belt, etc. Cold weather I'll idle for about a minute. In any weather, I drive gently until the OIL temp is up to 100'F, and won't hammer the engine until the oil gets to 180'. Which takes a LOOONG time during winter.
Last edited by Gearhead Jim; Dec 3, 2005 at 11:33 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,841
Likes: 19
From: CLT, North Carolina
Cold Oil, Airplane Engines and other Misc. Ramblings
I am agreeing with you guys that it is best to warm the engine up and get some heat in the oil before you run it hard. The best thing for colder climates is be sure you have the right viscosity oil for conditions. I think 5W-30 Mobil 1 should be sufficient for most folks but you can get lighter oils such as 0W-20 for extreme cold. Several years ago when it was forecast to be zero degrees here the next morning I put four different varieties of oil outside so I could see how they poured at that temperature. The oils were: 50 weight Unocal Racing, 40 weight Unocal Racing, 20W-50 Unocal Racing, and 10W-40 Unocal conventional. The next morning the 50 weight wouldn't pour upside down, The 40 poured but was thicker than pure STP, The 20W-50 poured but was very thick, The 10W-40 poured the best but was still pretty thick and showed me what a an engine has to endure after a cold start at those temperatures. I would say your main concern for a cold start is how quickly you can achieve oil circulation. The cold start warning for Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines is very real but for different reasons. They are air cooled engines with very different cylinder and cylinder head design. In those engines the cylinder heads are integral with the cylinder jugs; in other words they do not have head gaskets. Because there is a wide disparity in temperature in a running air cooled engine between the base of the cylinder and the top region of the cylinder bores which affects expansion rate they are purposely formed and honed to a taper shape to compensate. Because the bore to piston clearance is tighter at the top in a cold engine the manufacturer wants them warmed to straighten them up and open the clearance before you take off. You really dont want to stick a piston when you are up to speed nearing the end of the runway pulling the yoke back.
Regards, Greg
Regards, Greg
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 1
From: atlantic city new jersey
Originally Posted by gilly6993
way to much work to warm the car IMO.....I just let it run for a few min before driving it....and sometimes I don't even do that....just gentle til it gets to temp
Thats alot of work IMHO.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,292
Likes: 0
From: FL
Originally Posted by Vet
My new C6 still has under 500 miles on it so I'm doing my best to be as gentle as possible with it.
As we all know, cold starts are not good for any engine. I came up with something simple that helps warm the engine prior to starting.. at least for now while the engine is still not yet broken in.
I picked up an old 1500 watt indoor radiant heater at a garage sale years ago for about $3. I modified it so that it could lay flat on the floor with a max height of about 4"... slides under vehicles easily. I've seen other radiant heaters for sale new that have a slim profile and would also work without much or any modding.
What I do now is jack up the front of the car a few inches, slide the heater right under the oil pan and leave it on for an hour before start up. I specifically raise the car a bit so there's a good 6" of clearance between the heater and car just to make sure that no wiring etc underneath can get burned. (Of course I also made sure there were no oil leaks of any kind under the car - very important).
It works well. The other day, before turning on the heater, the oil temp, according to the DIC, was 44 degrees (F).... coolant the same. After running the heater for one hour, the DIC said the oil was now 115 degrees F. The coolant temp even came up to... in the 90s if I remember correctly.
I expected the oil temp to suddenly drop after starting the engine, once the warm oil at the bottom would circulate around the engine, but to my surprise, the oil temp stayed at 115 and quickly went up from there once rolling down the block in 1st gear. Keeping the hood closed with the heater underneath must also heat up the entire engine compartment, engine block, radiator, etc, at least to an extent. Coolant also got hot real fast... and this was on a 39 degree day.
Is this heater idea overkill? Probably. But, since the engine is so new, I figured I'd baby it for now. Doesn't cost anything except for maybe a nickel worth of electricity.
Will be interesting to see how this heater works when it is 15 degrees F in the garage. I think the whole heater idea will make more sense when it is that much colder and the oil is thick like molassas.
I used to use this heater under my 1100cc motorcycle when it was 18 degrees F or so (you know, for the New Year's Day "Frozen Butt" runs and such). After an hour of that heater, the engine would start right up with no fuss, hardly even needed choke.
I guess if it were easier and more practical, it would be great to heat any engine like this before every single cold start up. But then again, if you don't plan to keep the vehicle more than 200k miles anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. These newer engines seem to wear quite well.
As we all know, cold starts are not good for any engine. I came up with something simple that helps warm the engine prior to starting.. at least for now while the engine is still not yet broken in.
I picked up an old 1500 watt indoor radiant heater at a garage sale years ago for about $3. I modified it so that it could lay flat on the floor with a max height of about 4"... slides under vehicles easily. I've seen other radiant heaters for sale new that have a slim profile and would also work without much or any modding.
What I do now is jack up the front of the car a few inches, slide the heater right under the oil pan and leave it on for an hour before start up. I specifically raise the car a bit so there's a good 6" of clearance between the heater and car just to make sure that no wiring etc underneath can get burned. (Of course I also made sure there were no oil leaks of any kind under the car - very important).
It works well. The other day, before turning on the heater, the oil temp, according to the DIC, was 44 degrees (F).... coolant the same. After running the heater for one hour, the DIC said the oil was now 115 degrees F. The coolant temp even came up to... in the 90s if I remember correctly.
I expected the oil temp to suddenly drop after starting the engine, once the warm oil at the bottom would circulate around the engine, but to my surprise, the oil temp stayed at 115 and quickly went up from there once rolling down the block in 1st gear. Keeping the hood closed with the heater underneath must also heat up the entire engine compartment, engine block, radiator, etc, at least to an extent. Coolant also got hot real fast... and this was on a 39 degree day.
Is this heater idea overkill? Probably. But, since the engine is so new, I figured I'd baby it for now. Doesn't cost anything except for maybe a nickel worth of electricity.
Will be interesting to see how this heater works when it is 15 degrees F in the garage. I think the whole heater idea will make more sense when it is that much colder and the oil is thick like molassas.
I used to use this heater under my 1100cc motorcycle when it was 18 degrees F or so (you know, for the New Year's Day "Frozen Butt" runs and such). After an hour of that heater, the engine would start right up with no fuss, hardly even needed choke.
I guess if it were easier and more practical, it would be great to heat any engine like this before every single cold start up. But then again, if you don't plan to keep the vehicle more than 200k miles anyway, I guess it doesn't matter. These newer engines seem to wear quite well.
omg.....
