Considering Vette
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Originally Posted by ein Tier
Not only am I a first time Corvette owner, this is the first American car I've ever owned. My wife had a Mustang when we married, but I don't claim it since I didn't buy it, I didn't want it, I didn't like it, and I spent way too much time working on it.
Never again, said I. Never will I own another American car. Funny thing, forever isn't that long at all.
You're right, it won't be. However, if your Vette is like mine, you'll never be back at the dealership. I wouldn't say the service I get is bad, but it's not on par with how much the car costs. I hear that if you can find a Chevrolet/Cadillac dealership, the quality of service goes way up.
The reason it's not up to par, so to speak, is because of the performance of the Corvette. Even if you spend twice as much money, it does not mean you'll have a car that can beat it. The performance potential of this car is ungodly, I've taken mine around Texas World Speedway more than a few times, and it took a lot of getting used to.
So, if you want Ferrari performance at BMW prices, well.... something's gotta give. In this case, it's the interior. Truth be told, though, it's much better than the previous Corvettes, and nice enough that I don't mind.
Go drive one. I thought I'd gotten jaded, then I went and test drove a Lotus Elise. It's a very fast car, but compared to the torque of the Corvette, it feels very, very slow. It's incredible just how much power this car has. At TWS, I can spin the tires pretty much anywhere on the track by being careless with the throttle. And TWS is a fast track.
Did I mention that I've cornered the Vette at 1.27g's there? On the stock runflats? Yeah. There will be little that can run you down, and it's usually wearing a prancing horse or a bucking bull. M3's? They stay in my rear view. The only thing I've found semi-comparible from the Germans in terms of price and performance is the SLK55 AMG. But it is about 20% more expensive, has less horsepower, more weight, and no manual -- but it does seem to get around almost as quickly and with a ton more luxury.
You need to go test drive one. One that's broken in and that you can really light up the throttle in. That's where the value is in this car. I can't go faster for less money, and that's the bottom line for me. I keep kicking around the idea of an Elise to park next to it, but I keep thinking it's going to be "his and hers" Corvettes. The Elise costs the same, is slower, and has zero creature comforts. ...but it is more fun to drive.
ah, decisions, decisions.
There are two kinds of "manumatics". Ferrari uses a conventional manual transmission and clutch and controls it all with your inputs and a computer. Mercedes uses a traditional auto (like our Corvette) and paddles. The problem is, at the bottom of it all, it's still an automatic with a torque converter and all the compromises therein.
I'd own the former. I won't own the latter. It's for people who want to pretend they're driving a manual (no offense to anyone with paddle shifters). Now, if they can ever perfect CVT's, I'll get one of those.
Never again, said I. Never will I own another American car. Funny thing, forever isn't that long at all.
You're right, it won't be. However, if your Vette is like mine, you'll never be back at the dealership. I wouldn't say the service I get is bad, but it's not on par with how much the car costs. I hear that if you can find a Chevrolet/Cadillac dealership, the quality of service goes way up.
The reason it's not up to par, so to speak, is because of the performance of the Corvette. Even if you spend twice as much money, it does not mean you'll have a car that can beat it. The performance potential of this car is ungodly, I've taken mine around Texas World Speedway more than a few times, and it took a lot of getting used to.
So, if you want Ferrari performance at BMW prices, well.... something's gotta give. In this case, it's the interior. Truth be told, though, it's much better than the previous Corvettes, and nice enough that I don't mind.
Go drive one. I thought I'd gotten jaded, then I went and test drove a Lotus Elise. It's a very fast car, but compared to the torque of the Corvette, it feels very, very slow. It's incredible just how much power this car has. At TWS, I can spin the tires pretty much anywhere on the track by being careless with the throttle. And TWS is a fast track.
Did I mention that I've cornered the Vette at 1.27g's there? On the stock runflats? Yeah. There will be little that can run you down, and it's usually wearing a prancing horse or a bucking bull. M3's? They stay in my rear view. The only thing I've found semi-comparible from the Germans in terms of price and performance is the SLK55 AMG. But it is about 20% more expensive, has less horsepower, more weight, and no manual -- but it does seem to get around almost as quickly and with a ton more luxury.
You need to go test drive one. One that's broken in and that you can really light up the throttle in. That's where the value is in this car. I can't go faster for less money, and that's the bottom line for me. I keep kicking around the idea of an Elise to park next to it, but I keep thinking it's going to be "his and hers" Corvettes. The Elise costs the same, is slower, and has zero creature comforts. ...but it is more fun to drive.
ah, decisions, decisions.
There are two kinds of "manumatics". Ferrari uses a conventional manual transmission and clutch and controls it all with your inputs and a computer. Mercedes uses a traditional auto (like our Corvette) and paddles. The problem is, at the bottom of it all, it's still an automatic with a torque converter and all the compromises therein.
I'd own the former. I won't own the latter. It's for people who want to pretend they're driving a manual (no offense to anyone with paddle shifters). Now, if they can ever perfect CVT's, I'll get one of those.
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From: Austin, Texas Codes 660, 9448, and 295660 work in the C6 navigation unit. No DVD playback yet.
Originally Posted by Yellow R1
Ferrari's F1 tranny has no clutch that the driver can control - its done via a Paddle shift, "The combination of an electro-hydraulic gearbox, controls on the steering wheel and the absence of a clutch, prevents changes to the car's set-up that may otherwise occur during manual lever manoeuvres.
I'm not seeing how Ferrari's paddle shift offers more driver involvement (other than automaticly "blipping" the throttle a bit to synchronize the engine & tranny during downshifting?). What do you think?
-Matt
I'm not seeing how Ferrari's paddle shift offers more driver involvement (other than automaticly "blipping" the throttle a bit to synchronize the engine & tranny during downshifting?). What do you think?
-Matt
I don't like them primarily because I don't like how they feel. I can always tell there is not a direct connection between the engine and the wheels. I feel the inherent slop in the torque converter. I hate the way power is delivered and I don't like waiting to accelerate. Even the tiptronics and such don't allow you to shift, it's just a strong suggestion to the transmission. I find them maddening to drive that way because it feels like such a gimmick -- the transmission still seems to shift when it damn well pleases. Yes, I know they are faster and more consistent at the drag strip, but my car goes road coursing, not bracket racing, and the automatic is at a severe disadvantage there.
With the Ferrari F1 transmission, you lose the direct feel of controling the clutch, but you gain so much more. The car is faster than you could ever be, it always perfectly rev matches and never misses a shift. It's what automatics should have been.
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From: seattle wa
I have a quick question for ein Tier...you have brought up extremely good points of the car's power and handling for course's and the such that you go too.....what if you won't ever take your car to a race track or course?....wouldnt the 400+hp really be a little overkill for a daily driver or city/highway cruiser?...i mean...what if you never bring your car over 100mph?...or rarely do so?....if that is the case and you still want the luxury of a car and are not extremely concerned about going 0 - 60 in 4.2 seconds....what other options are there aside from the corvette within that pricerange?...M3?...
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From: Katy The Republic of Texas
Originally Posted by Short-Throw
The fact that you haven't bought one means you haven't driven one.
If you can get a test drive, bring your checkbook and save yourself an extra trip home and back!
Seriously, put down the tennis racket and take the test drive. It's an incredible machine.
Plus, it's made HERE.
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Originally Posted by sla07
I have a quick question for ein Tier...you have brought up extremely good points of the car's power and handling for course's and the such that you go too.....what if you won't ever take your car to a race track or course?....wouldnt the 400+hp really be a little overkill for a daily driver or city/highway cruiser?...i mean...what if you never bring your car over 100mph?...or rarely do so?....if that is the case and you still want the luxury of a car and are not extremely concerned about going 0 - 60 in 4.2 seconds....what other options are there aside from the corvette within that pricerange?...M3?...
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From: seattle wa
Originally Posted by dashotgun
sounds like you want a cruiser and although a corvette can be a cruiser the real value of the car is in it's price to performance level. The BMW is also more of a sports sedan rather then a cruiser. I think the mercedes slk is more what you looking for in that regard( not the amg). Topspin the bmw and the porsche do have a better road feel then the vette. I am told by a friend that owns all 3 that with the vette you have to take it on face towards the limit that the car will make the turn and with the porsche the car gives better feedback. That being said he likes his vette better then the porsche. he has the Z 06 and likes it better then the M3
well nto necessarily a cruiser....but this would be my only car....so essentially i would want the comfort and conveniences of both a daily driver and somewhat of a sporty car...looking at my own personal situation...for some reason i don't feel the corvette would suit my needs at this point in my life (im only 24)....i drive maybe 100 miles per week....since work is about 2.3 miles away from me....not to mention the car would have to support my needs as far as lets say...going to the grocery store?....not much id be able to fit into a corvette i dont think...lol....but you understand where i am headed with this?....thats why i have been looking around and the only other car that honestly appeals to me is an M3....it has both the luxury portion and a little bit of "umph" from my understanding...but i have to read up on it a bit more...
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From: Silver Spring Maryland
Originally Posted by sla07
well nto necessarily a cruiser....but this would be my only car....so essentially i would want the comfort and conveniences of both a daily driver and somewhat of a sporty car...looking at my own personal situation...for some reason i don't feel the corvette would suit my needs at this point in my life (im only 24)....i drive maybe 100 miles per week....since work is about 2.3 miles away from me....not to mention the car would have to support my needs as far as lets say...going to the grocery store?....not much id be able to fit into a corvette i dont think...lol....but you understand where i am headed with this?....thats why i have been looking around and the only other car that honestly appeals to me is an M3....it has both the luxury portion and a little bit of "umph" from my understanding...but i have to read up on it a bit more...
It's a little pricey for that kind of duty, but whatever floats your boat
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From: Columbia, SC
Originally Posted by sla07
thats why i have been looking around and the only other car that honestly appeals to me is an M3....it has both the luxury portion and a little bit of "umph" from my understanding...but i have to read up on it a bit more...
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Mine is weekend nice weather car. There are plenty of people here who use it as a daily driver. The coupe has room for groceries and such. Even with the z 51 suspension it does not have a punishing ride. The m3 has a back seat which although smallish is a back seat. The m3 has better road feel but not necessarily better handling. For those who are impressed by such things ( not me ) it may have more of a cachet. I would love to have a BMW also. The quality control of the BMW is suspect, my friend has had 6 trips to the dealer for bad shocks and now has a bad differential( I know a sample of one) the early ones had problems with the smg which BMW initially blamed on the owners before replacing a bunch of engines. They are really different kinds of cars. BMW= sophisticated sports sedan with wonderful handling and feedback with sl better practicality in that it is a coupe. Also has different response from the average (non car person) ( aside has anyone else heard eww your getting a corvette = midlife crisis)
Corvette different kind of sophistication sl less practical tremendous power to weight with torque. Pretty good fit and finish with the bias towards value to price.
Corvette different kind of sophistication sl less practical tremendous power to weight with torque. Pretty good fit and finish with the bias towards value to price.
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Originally Posted by katyswim1981c3
Seriously, put down the tennis racket and take the test drive. It's an incredible machine.
Plus, it's made HERE.
As for made here, that wouldn't sway me. Many Americans work for Toyota, BMW's are made in South Carolina.... so no longer applicable in my mind. But test drive- yes!
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From: seattle wa
Originally Posted by dashotgun
Also has different response from the average (non car person) ( aside has anyone else heard eww your getting a corvette = midlife crisis)
after reading through this forum for the past month or so...it looks like this car is geared more on the sport side than anything and more for those extreme car enthusiasts....im interested to see how it would handle as a daily driver....i just know that as a daily driver i would eventually lose all care for it....unfortunately i dont have a garage either....so thats the other portion that steers me away from a corvette....carport's kind of scare me..i had my ninja sitting there and it was tipped over 2 times in 2 weeks....broke a bunch of crap...lord knows what they would do to a corvette
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Originally Posted by sla07
lol...i hear that a lot....even my friends look at me when i tell them im considering a corvette and they just say "dude your not 60"...i just ignore them honestly...then again half of them can barely afford a hyundai so it could be some kind of jealousy or envy that they try to steer me away from a corvette....
after reading through this forum for the past month or so...it looks like this car is geared more on the sport side than anything and more for those extreme car enthusiasts....im interested to see how it would handle as a daily driver....i just know that as a daily driver i would eventually lose all care for it....unfortunately i dont have a garage either....so thats the other portion that steers me away from a corvette....carport's kind of scare me..i had my ninja sitting there and it was tipped over 2 times in 2 weeks....broke a bunch of crap...lord knows what they would do to a corvette
after reading through this forum for the past month or so...it looks like this car is geared more on the sport side than anything and more for those extreme car enthusiasts....im interested to see how it would handle as a daily driver....i just know that as a daily driver i would eventually lose all care for it....unfortunately i dont have a garage either....so thats the other portion that steers me away from a corvette....carport's kind of scare me..i had my ninja sitting there and it was tipped over 2 times in 2 weeks....broke a bunch of crap...lord knows what they would do to a corvette
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Originally Posted by dashotgun
sounds like you want a cruiser and although a corvette can be a cruiser the real value of the car is in it's price to performance level. The BMW is also more of a sports sedan rather then a cruiser. I think the mercedes slk is more what you looking for in that regard( not the amg). Topspin the bmw and the porsche do have a better road feel then the vette. I am told by a friend that owns all 3 that with the vette you have to take it on face towards the limit that the car will make the turn and with the porsche the car gives better feedback. That being said he likes his vette better then the porsche. he has the Z 06 and likes it better then the M3
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i guess 'spin it depends what you want out of the car. I am prejudiced against porsches, I think they are over priced, The extra goodies do not come standard( at least a few years ago leather was extra you got leatherette as the standard surface) The corvette's biggest fault vis a vis the porsche is the better steering feel that car has and the better intertior which you will pay for. I think the amount of money you will spend for the cayman is sinful. The corvette is a better car if you like acceleration. ( better cachet in the porsches) The boxster is a nonstarter for me. The new upcoming bmw M3 is interesting and will have a V8 higher prices version one of a new car unknown if the front weight bias will change the handeling characertistics. i would sit that one out for a model year.
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You have to trust the car that it will turn in it does not give a trusting feel towards the limits that it will go around a corner. i personaly do not track and do not drive a car at 10/10 on the street. You seemed to like the feel of the bmw steering. i do not think the corvette does that feel as well. The handeling is there but not the feel. ie you have to trust when going pedal to the floor some times that it will make the curve at lower speeds that illusive sensation of control is sl diminished in the vette. however you have much more torque which is wildly entertaining and a sensation you have to experience.
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From: Austin, Texas Codes 660, 9448, and 295660 work in the C6 navigation unit. No DVD playback yet.
Originally Posted by sla07
I have a quick question for ein Tier...you have brought up extremely good points of the car's power and handling for course's and the such that you go too.....what if you won't ever take your car to a race track or course?....wouldnt the 400+hp really be a little overkill for a daily driver or city/highway cruiser?...i mean...what if you never bring your car over 100mph?...or rarely do so?....if that is the case and you still want the luxury of a car and are not extremely concerned about going 0 - 60 in 4.2 seconds....what other options are there aside from the corvette within that pricerange?...M3?...
If you're never going to mash that throttle to the floor, then this probably is the wrong car for you. It really belongs on a track. You can't even really exercise it on the road -- you can play, but you can't heat the tires up and really put it anywhere near the limits on a public road. It's just too fast and too capable, by the time you're getting to the limits the speeds are so high you're putting the car and yourself in a lot of danger. To not take the car to the track misses the whole point -- and if you don't want to go fast, there are other cars that will fit your needs better.
However, that's not to say the Corvette is impractical. It is not. You only get two seats, true, but most 2+2 sporty cars don't have back seats you'd want to put an adult in anyway. And, when was the last time you had three people wanting to go somewhere and none of the three has a car that seats four? The hatch is absurdly huge, you can fit a LOT of stuff back there. There's also a lot of luxury for a car that has 400hp and goes 0-60 in 4.1. Even my 60 year old mother is amazed every time she rides in my car at how well it rides -- and I have the Z51 suspension and she's used to Mercedes-Benzes.
Reading your post below, the M3 is probably a better fit for your needs, but if I were you, I'd buy the Corvette. Why? One, you're young. The Corvette will have more curb appeal than the M3, and speaking from past experience, it's a lot of fun being young and having a car that really stands out. The M3 does stand out to those who know what it is, but many see it as "another 3-series". (On the other hand, you'll be less likely to get stopped for speeding in it) Second, there is always an excuse to not buy an impractical two seater sports car. The absolute best time to do it is when you're very young. If you make excuses for it now, because it's not practical, you'll make the same excuses when you get married and have children. And you'll keep making the same excuses until you're 50, and then you'll wonder why you never bought a car like that when you were younger. I'll say this much, the Corvette is the most practical sports car I've ever owned and definately the most practical two-seat sports car I've owned. In fact, if you throw out the fact that it can't carry a bunch of people, it's the most luxurious and practical car I've ever owned. It's a better daily driver than the Honda Accord I had in college.
Do it now. Life is short.
Last edited by ein Tier; Jan 18, 2006 at 01:46 PM.
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From: Austin, Texas Codes 660, 9448, and 295660 work in the C6 navigation unit. No DVD playback yet.
Originally Posted by dashotgun
You have to trust the car that it will turn in it does not give a trusting feel towards the limits that it will go around a corner. i personaly do not track and do not drive a car at 10/10 on the street. You seemed to like the feel of the bmw steering. i do not think the corvette does that feel as well. The handeling is there but not the feel. ie you have to trust when going pedal to the floor some times that it will make the curve at lower speeds that illusive sensation of control is sl diminished in the vette. however you have much more torque which is wildly entertaining and a sensation you have to experience.
The Miata is a sublime car to drive around a track, it always does what you want, when you want it, and it never does anything unexpected. It is literally an extension of your body. It's also incredibly forgiving at the limit. It will let you know you've done something wrong, but it refuses to throw you to the wolves for it. It's only "problem" is that it does not have any horsepower. But this makes you a better driver, because if you make a mistake, you don't have horsepower to save you. Driving the Miata is all about taking exactly the right line and maintaining momentum. That's why I continue to track it -- it reminds me what good driving is all about.
The Corvette? Well, it's a friggin sledgehammer. It's large, heavy, and sometimes leads itself to big, sloppy results. You have horsepower in abundance, and I had to really learn throttle modulation -- you can't just bury the throttle like you can the Miata or my friend's STi. When you first start driving it fast, you'll think there's no feeling and the car is difficult to place and doesn't communicate. All of these things are true, but they lessen with time. The car does communicate, but it does so in a whisper. It is very predictable, but things happen very, very quickly and you must know how to listen to what the car is telling you. If you refuse to listen, it will throw you the wolves. It will hurt you (or at least, your pocketbook). The Miata I can drive all day at the track and still feel like driving another hundred miles. With the Corvette, I often cut my track time short at the end of the day -- it's just very tiring to drive that car fast. Part of that is because the limits are higher and you must use a lot more force to steer the car around and hold yourself in place, but a lot of it is that you have to concentrate so hard on what you're doing. When you're not concentrating is when the Corvette is going to let you do something really, really stupid.
But yes, the car will stick. It will go around a corner. It will do thing that will surprise you. But it never, ever inspires confidence. My Miata takes about half a lap to get comfortable with and start finding the limits. My friend's STi took me about two laps. The Corvette took me two full track days to get there.
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this is an interesting thread thank ein ter for your input it confirms what I have heard. In an interview the new chief engineer alluded to the steering feel so perhaps in the c7 or in newer iteriations of the car this will be addressed. the car does lack that ellusive feel but it is not a major strike for brisk non track motoring taking on ramps at shall we say higher then normal speeds. In your avatar you need to leave him on his side turning him over to his back is how the suffocate
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Originally Posted by ein Tier
One, you're young. The Corvette will have more curb appeal than the M3, and speaking from past experience, it's a lot of fun being young and having a car that really stands out. The M3 does stand out to those who know what it is, but many see it as "another 3-series".
Topspin is 24. He's probably (to stereotype) going to be hanging out at places with a lot of people his age. The general 24-year-old is going to place more curb appeal on anything with a BMW roundel over a Chevrolet. Then again, who said he cares about curb appeal?