I have all of the protection possible. Priority Start, pulled relay 46, and installed an Optima yellow top. '05 MN6 with nav. Yes, yes, the car was in reverse and the steering wheel was locked.

The unusual thing about this event was that I activated the priority start and there was plenty of juice in the Optima. Lights came on, MP3 started playing BUT when I pushed the starter button the whole car shut down. I had to reactivate the priority start and the same thing happened again after I hit the starter button. I have a quick disconnect on the battery as well so I disconnected the battery to reset the computers.

The next attempt to start the car replicated the same sequence.

I finally got the car started by recycling the shifter reverse switch several times by going from neutral to reverse and shutting the car's electrical system off. It finally came back to life and has been acting like normal for the last week.

My conclusion from this is that there is something related to the reverse gear shut down switch system that can cause DBS in the '05, MN6. This proves, to me anyway, that GM did find this as a problem and eliminated the switch in the '06.

Hopes that this info leads to finding the solution to this consistantly elusive problem

 

Why???

How does that prove that it is in the reverse switch? If it was the reverse gear shut down switch, then why did the car shut down and all the lights go off, when you pushed the start button to start it up as described in your second paragraph?

If the car "believed" that it was not in reverse, and rather in some other gear, it still should have started when you depressed the clutch and pushed the start button instead of powering down, if it had enough juice to start.

Same thing happens if you stall it out leaving a stop sign or light, she should start up in whatever gear as long as the clutch is depressed when you hit the start button. If you stall it at an intersection, it does not power down when you depress the clutch and hit the start button to restart it.

I don't see where this proves a thing. Other than they might be something else going on with the electrical system of your particular car. Cycling through with the shifter could be totally unrelated to it starting. It may have started if you had thrown salt over your right shoulder also. For some reason instead of starting when the start button was pushed, it shut down when the start button was pushed. Just as if you had turned off accessory mode.

That could mean that the start button is bad. I don't see how it proves that the reverse switch is.

 

I offered a clue not proof. And, I doubt that my car if doing anything differently than most.

Ease up young gun!

 

Actually I am easy like Sunday morning. But I am merely asking how this proves anything with regard to the reverse switch?

Well you said: "This proves, to me anyway, that GM did find this as a problem and eliminated the switch in the '06. "

And I am merely asking how does that "prove" anything to you??? Please explain. I am just asking is all.

 

Can you offer up why GM would go through the additional expense of redesigning the electrics and subsequent manuals if there was not some financial reason to do so? This is not a prudent move for a company on the brink of bankruptcy.

The reverse switch may not be the only probem associated to the DBS syndrome but I now believe that is a significant contributor.

 

More often than not we wind up with the argument:

"The shift into reverse requirement must have been the problem causing DBS, so thats why they eliminated it".

Part of the problem with that logic is that there are '06s winding up with unexplained dead batteries. At least one here, an A6 has killed multiple batteries, at least one an Optima.

If the shift into reverse requirement were indeed the problem, then there should have been NO A4s with unexplained dead batteries, and there should be NO '06s automatic or manual with unexplained dead batteries. But do a search and you will find '06s and A4 '05s, non of which have a shift to reverse requirement, showing up with unexplained dead batteries.



Now why did they eliminate the shift into reverse requirement?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1344697

I refer to post #4 and post #12.

But specifically, I am trying to find out, from you, first of all just what exactly, does your described episode prove to you and secondly, how it proves it???????? Again, just asking.

 

I've also felt that the reverse sensor may be the culprit.

My theory post #6:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...29&forum_id=74

As time goes by, my reverse sensor misbehaves less often. Maybe the switch is mechanical and is breaking in or loosening up with time.

The removal of the column lock was due to changes in gov't mandates related to anti-theft requirements. It may just be fortuitous that DBS has probably been eliminated in the '06's by its removal.

Did you ever see the DIC warning 'shift to reverse' during your episodes?

 

Only the observation that after two recycles to reverse that the car immediately reverted to normal operation. It's effect was immediate and direct. The second recycle to reverse and pushing the start button was as if the car was never imposed with any compromise in operation. Not slow turning over, not dim lighting, and not the check steering lock message (as I have encountered previously before I changed over to the Optima yellow top).

There are obviously problems that have yet to be address with some of the 05 MN6 cars and the electricals. I've never been stranded with all of the preps that I've taken but being in Germany and knowing that I have very limited options to me in the event of a complete battery failure I have made sure that I am updated on all of the avaliable information on the problem (and it is a problem).

I've yet to see any solution - even the reverse switch removal for the '06s does not seem to fix the problem completley.

I would not consider trading my car because of this problem - although I would seriously consider a trade for a 996. C6s cost over 60k euro ($85K) here in Germany.

 

No - only the "steering lock service required" message.

 

That's so odd. Not your typical DBS. That message gets thrown commonly with a dead battery just starting back up.
You didn't actually have DBS then, but it was as if the reverse/switch/sensor/feature somehow disconnected your battery temporarily?

 

Yes - exactly. There seemed to of been a drain on the battery that generated an amperage draw to the point where the steering lock error mesaage was generated. The battery was still strong enough to support starting the car easily once the error was corrected.

No answers here but something is causing a significant current draw, ocasionally, that has nothing to do with operator intervention.

 

You should let C5-Bruce on this forum know about your happenings. He has someone at GM to show it to...

 

That seems like a possibility. Does anyone know where the wire is the monitors whether or not the car is in reverse? If so, why not bypass it.

 

I too believe the reverse switch is screwed up. As posted before I was getting drain low enough to kick in my Priority Start if I left in reverse (after DIC was happy I had properly shut down) within 8 hours, 100% of the time. If I did proper shut down, then shifted into another gear (DIC still happy) car would not experience DBS.

I am toying with the idea of trying to adapt an '06 BCM to my '05 car. Just to see what happens.

 

Steve Germany: By the way, is your car a euro-spec car?

 

No - US spec. I shipped it to Germany.

 

FOR STEVE
Question have you run into any other 05 6spds over there. Just trying to figure out if the export C6 had the put into reverse nonsense.
Thanks

 

I've only seen three other C6s here in Germany. The one US Spec DOSM NM6 that I've run across has had no problems.

One Sunday I met up with a Euro spec C6 on the Autobahn - with some encouragment he waved but I couldn't tell much more about the car.

 

I'm still on the fence as to whether the message "Service column lock" is cause or effect. I still think the column lock is what causes DBS in most cases. I think the "Service Column Lock" message pops up because the column lock actually failed and it is not caused by a low voltage error. I actually caught my car mid-DBS one time. I had just parked, ran in to get some carryout, and then came back to the car. I just happened to have the DIC on voltage display and had been watching the voltage. I made several other stops before that and every time I turned it off, it was at 14.4 volts and was 14.4 volts when I started it back up. This time, it was 14.4 volts when I shut it off but had dropped significantly when I started it back up a few minutes later. It was at least a half a volt lower: either 13.9 or 13.6, don't remember which now as I'd have to search for my earlier post. In any case, this one time there was a significant drop, but the voltage was still plenty to start the car. When I started it, I immediately got "Service Column Lock" and then noticed the voltage had dropped significantly for that short a time. That, to me, pointed out the possibility that the column lock had failed to engage and was causing the current draw, not that a current draw caused the "Service Column Lock" message.

When we look back on this after the DBS culprit is officially found, we'll all be slapping ourselves on the forehead saying, "Man, all the times we saw that service column lock message we thought it was just a random error appearing due to low voltage when the car was trying to tell us what was wrong the whole time."

My .02

Mike

 

As always, thank you Steve for the investigation. Sounds like a good direction for some of the problems. I knew it wasn't from too much REJEX, because mine hasn't died yet. WOOHOO!!!