This is the back and forth with a forum Vendor (http://www.ssinserts.com/corvette.htm) over a problem I had with SS inserts for my fuel rails. the e-mails are cut and paste exactly as they were sent, all I did was put them in order first to last instead of last to first. Where the response did not include the prior communication I will make note. I will also give an insight to my though process as I attempted to communicate with this vendor.

I really tried to work with the vendor but for some reason it seamed that they just took a stand and shut off . Let me know if I could have done anything different to come to a resolution.

Please reference order # 15385

On above referenced order there was a;

ZFRC Corvette Stainless Steel Fuel Rail Cover Inserts 1 $120.00 $120.00
Year: 2005-2006

I installed same on 9-21-06. I have a problem on one set of the "LS2" inserts see following.

Pictures in attachments show the problem.




Could you please send out new "S" and a New "2". Would you also include a packet of the adhesive activator with shipment.

Thank You;

Shortski on the Corvette Forum




P O Box 255
2202 RT 4 East
Bridgewater Corners Vt 05035
802-672-3014
978-578-4465





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Attachments Preview:


SSinserts problem LS2 2.jpg

This was my initial e-mail contact to Vendor.

This was the vendors first response, note response did not include prior communication with response.

Sorry, they do fit. Looks like there is too much paint. The painter put to much inside

Concise and to the point, for a while the e-mails are contiguous.

From: shortski@vermontel.net
To: Ssinserts@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: Order # 15385


First off it would be nice to know who I'm dealing with, why no name?

Not the answer I expected after spending :


SS-C6E Corvette C6 / Z06 Billet Emergency Brake Handle Cover 1 $54.95 $54.95
BP5060 C6 / Z06 A/C & Radio Billet ***** (set of 2) 2 $30.00 $60.00
BP5070 $15.00 $30.00
ZFRC Corvette Stainless Steel Fuel Rail Cover Inserts 1 $120.00 $120.00
Year: 2005-2006
SSCI05 C6 / Z06 Corvette Rear Stainless Steel Inserts 1 $63.95 $63.95
Shipping: UPS Ground: $16.65
Sales Tax: $0.00
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Total: $345.55

And recommending you to other Vet owners:http://forums.corvetteforum.Com/show....php?t=1505727



Tell you what can you sell me just the "S' and "2" so I can try to get it to look right. Let me know how much.

Don McNeill

Shortski on the Corvette Forum

The Reply

we sign all our emails with the SS Inserts, sorry if that bothered you. I am sorry that your painter over did the paint. We can sell you the s and the 2 for $25.00

Barry

Thank You,
SS INSERTS
480-614-3986

My Response and SS reply:

From: shortski@vermontel.net
To: ssinserts@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 22 Sep 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Order # 15385


Barry,

No it didn't bother me you didn't see fit to use your name in the first correspondence, I just feel better having a name when I'm dealing with people, maybe it's just me.

OK on the price for the "S" and the "2" for $25, how do I arrange payment.

By the Way here's the other side of the fuel rail, note the rounded corner on the letters.




Don McNeill

Shortski on the Corvette Forum

Vendor's response, why is he shouting at me...first indication that this isn't going to be easy.

Don,
THE FIT IS CORRECT, THE PROBLEM LIES WITH HOW MUCH PAINT ROLLS OVER, THUS CHANGING THE FIT. SOME PAINTERS, INSTEAD OF SANDING THE COVERS SMOOTH, JUST KEEP THROWING PAINT AT THEM. WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT. WE SEE IT HAPPEN A FEW TIMES, NOT MANY. IT IS BETTER TO TELL THE PAINTER YOU ARE GOING TO PUT THE INSERTS IN THERE. YOU CAN CALL MONDAY 480-688-6212 AND I WILL TAKE YOUR INFO OVER THE PHONE. OR YOU SEND CREDIT CARD INFO IN THE EMAIL AND WE WILL SHIP
BARRY

Thank You,
SS INSERTS
480-614-3986

This was the end of the e-mails for the time being as now we switch to a phone call. This is all hearsay as it's my word against the vendor. I'm now between a rock and a hard place, all I want for the time being is to get the replacement letters to fix the problem, so dealing with getting credit for the cost of the replacement letters once I've mitigated my damages is a matter that can wait for another day..

I called on Monday September 26, 2006 as I said I would. Barry had given me his direct line as he answered the phone. I stated who I was and brought up the prior e-mail contact. There was no discussion offered or tendered on the prior e-mail communication, just a here's what it is, this is what it costs , here's my credit card information.

Next Contact

Barry,

Per our phone call on Monday September 26, 2000, I received the necessary letter and number to complete the SS inserts on my fuel rails on October 3, 2006, thanks for the quick service.

I have removed the defective "S" and "2" and the results are what I expected..superb. I don't know or do I care what was going on with the first set you sent me, my baby is looking good. I still have a problem with your implying that the problem was with too much paint on the fuel rails. I indicated at the time of our original disagreement that I thought your claim that the painter, " INSTEAD OF SANDING THE COVERS SMOOTH, JUST KEEP THROWING PAINT AT THEM. WE CAN'T CONTROL THAT, is not correct. Here's the photos:





Oh, and heres the engine bay



and
The first place trophy I won...impartial judges think the paint looks just fine.




I was in sales for 35 years and I only had three rules:

1. The Customer is Always Right.

2. The Customer is Always Right Even if Their Wrong.

3. If Still Not Clear, See Rule #1 or #2

I don't understand what your reluctance to just give me the replacement letter and number to replace what I had a problem with. I don't want to take this any further than right here, all I want is a refund check for the $25 extra you charged to get what I paid for, I don't think I'm asking for too much.

Let me know:

Don

I did not get a response after a day and a half so I sent the following:

Well it's been over a day since my last correspondence and you have failed to reply. This is my last attempt to resolve this issue before looking to alternatives to resolve this to my satisfaction. So there is no misunderstanding This is my understanding of the dispute and what I expect to be done in order to satisfy me.

I ordered a fuel rail letter set from you for a price of $120, I received and installed and had a problem with the fit on on set of the Letter "S" and the number "2". I sent you pictures showing the fit problem and your contention was that it was a paint issue. You required an additional $25 to send me a new set of letterers to replace the ones I was having a problem with. I removed the miss-fitting letter and number and installed. I also sent you a picture of the install with the replacement letter and number, both of which fit perfectly. It is my contention that somehow the first set had a defect which would not allow them to sit in the fuel rail cover correctly. The fact that the replacement number and letter fit perfectly belay you conjecture that excess paint on the fuel rail cover was the problem. To resolve the issue all I am asking is that you refund the additional $25 you charged me to replace the defective one I received initially.

Please do not ignore this e-mail as I will not go quietly into the night. Please advise what you intentions are regarding this problem and my proposed resolution.

Thank You

Don McNeill

The response, again not including any prior communication, take note on the part where it appears that Barry is going to say it was my choice to order the replacement letters at $25, not sure because of the poor grammar, but I think thats what he's insinuating.


am sorry you feel this way. We know our product and can't be responsible for installation problems, etc. We have an email for you requesting to buy the replacement letters. We are doneBarry

Italics and underline are, I guess, Barry's attempt to make this my problem.

"We are done"

And with so little fanfare I'm dismissed.

Before anyone goes off on why would I waste my time over $25...... because it's wrong!!

 

Seems like you laid out your position clearly, and they have taken theirs as well! I would think they would have taken care of you after seeing the photos of the replacements that fit just fine.

 

Yup, this is why I'm not doing any letter inserts on my car. Now my grand daughters big wheel ?!

 

Dude, I WAS completely with you... That is up until I looked at the pictures more closely.

It APPEARS that you installed the S & 2 upside down!

Look at the original 2, it has a flat top which should be the bottom.

If it were me, I'd call him back to apologize if it was my fault. I AGREE that he should have believed you or explained his side better, but some people would rather just be right. If you did in fact install them properly, I'm with you about being upset at how you were treated.

Good luck.

 

WE ARE DONE..................? Vendors that respond to Forum members with those types of replies don't deserve our business. I agree that $25 is a small sum, but if the customer isn't satisfied most vendors would eat that amount to keep the customer happy!

SS Inserts has lost one prospective customer............I will pay more from another vendor before I will patronize someone that puts the customer 2nd!

 

I thought that also, before contacting vendor I removed them as carefully as possible and tried flipping them to no avail.

 

The instructions clearly state to trial fit them before sticking them on. That's what I did when I put mine on and I realized I had the "2" upside down also. I can't believe SS Inserts didn't see this from your picture and tried to blame the paint. But you're at fault as well for sticking them on upside down!

 

Definitely looks like the "2" is upside down on the first install which also would cause me to question the "S." I don't think the vendor handled this well...but looks like you bear some responsibility as well. I think you should swallow the $25 and call it good. In case the vendor reads this...he should do something wiht his product and instructions to insure this does not happen to others.

 

It appears clear this vendor has both a product problem and an attitude problem.

You should try and keep this thread going so as many CF members are aware of HIS ATTITUDE as it concerns customer service (lack of).

If he does offer a refund, it will only be due to your posting this thread. Therefore, you should not allow him to just refund the $25.00 -- that's what he should have done without any hassle.

What he has done is similar to stealing. When a shoplifter gets caught stealing, he doesn't get to just pay for the item -- usually there is a penalty in the form of a fine. Therefore, for your time and effort you should receive a refund of $125.00 which includes an a**hole fine.

 

The two looks upside down, but that's because it was cut backwards. He received defective product.

 

I saw the same thing as you and C5pilot did prior to sending my first e-mail to vendor. I did test fit and thought the tape was preventing the letters from fully seating. Maybe I should have contacted Vendor at that point before preceeding with the install, Im not above admitting when I'm wrong. I just got a bad taste from the point where the vendor answers back in all CAPS, just didn't sit right, maybe that tainted any further correspondence we had, but it is still my contention that the letters didn't fit.

 

He might also want to do some reading on how to handle disputes. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he can be right and still watch his business go down the tubes.

I don't believe in the old saying, "The customer is always right".
I believe, "The customer is always... the customer.

Not to mention, it's far cheaper to keep a current customer than find a new one.

 

There's nothing wrong with the instructions. The "LS2" comes with tape behind it holding the 3 characters together for the proper orientation. My mistake was I took them apart to polish them first. By the time I was done polishing, I unknowingly had the "2" upside down. No big deal because it was obvious to me when I did the trial fit that it was upside down.

 

Look at the picture. Flip that "2" around and it works.
That picture is just how mine looked when I did the trial fit before turning it around the right way.

 

Unresolved disputes

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The Forum allows a factual post on an unresolved dispute with a vendor or another member once all efforts to resolve the issue offline have been exhausted. Then, the post must be factual and cannot be used to bash the vendor or the member. Once the post has been made, it cannot be repeated in other sections or on other days.

Moderators will try to leave such threads open until everybody with direct knowledge of the issue being addressed has had a chance to provide their version of the facts. The thread must not become a running debate on the accuracy of the “facts” and may not deteriorate into an exchange of personal attacks. Neither should be used as an opportunity for speculation by those who do not have direct knowledge of the issue.

Once there has been the opportunity for the facts on all sides to be posted, the thread will be locked. It will remain in the database and will be available for review by those who are researching the topic, vendor or member.

The Forum is not in a position to monitor transactions or to determine the “true facts” in most disputes. Upon request, however, the Forum will try to intervene and mediate a settlement suitable to all parties in a dispute. When issues are resolved in the matter, it will be posted to the original dispute thread so it becomes part of the searchable record. We believe that is a more useful record of performance for potential customers than would be an eBay-style rating system.

As has been our past practice, members or vendors who show a pattern of unresolved issues will be removed from Corvetteforum.com.

 

Keep this in perspective, while the vendor certainly could have done a better job in addressing the concern, the bottom line is the product was installed wrong. This would be like someone installing their exhaust system upside down and then complaining about the manufacturer.

 

... that's exactly what happened. You should get your 25 bucks back but from reading this response don't hold your breath. I bought the SS inserts for my rear bumper and they never fit properly. I just got pizzed off, ripped them off and tossed them out. Worst mod (expensive too) I've done on my vette.........

 

They're upside down.

 

Procharged minds think alike.

 

Well, this shouldn't be too difficult to find out. All shortski has to do is take the old S & 2 (which I'm sure he has), rotate them and see if they are identical to the new ones. Rotate them again and see if it's off in the same spots as his first try.

It's only a matter of time before someone photochops those pictures to prove the 2's are identical.

Shortski appears to be a very reasonable and intelligent person. If he finds it's his fault, I think he'd let us know quickly so a mod can put an end to this thread before someone gets hurt. Everyone makes mistakes. In the vendors case, writing those emails was his mistake. He should have had a secretary or 5th grader write them.